Lies, damn lies, and John David McGough

App_rpt-users
13

Joshua,

I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While
various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this
date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't
truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and "oh, it's all GPL2"
comments.

The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software
are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which
was on the "official" Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016.
See the fine print at the bottom of this document:

AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon
died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF
that ASL has LEGAL ownership of *ANYTHING* related to Jim Dixon's estate.
While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO
ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth.

If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon's probate case, the case number is:
17STPB08347

Go to this website and search for the case number:

http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate

As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g.
github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.

So, there isn't any "face to lose." The HamVoIP team has done nothing
wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply
a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.

Enough said, I've got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames
(hearsay) fly.

73, David KB4FXC

···

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:

John don't go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles
respect you both as developers even though we don't agree with this move.
You're now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the
deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know
this too.

I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too
is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP
networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team
offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software
(yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.

Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was
done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own
proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a
deep connection to it after all the years you've put into it, but it was
not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to
fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so
easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit
for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don't lose face on this. It
was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is
that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift.
Please just do the right thing and let's put this behind us.

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy <bob@ruddy.net> wrote:

> 100% agree with everything you said.
>
> Bob
>
> On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in
>> the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns
>> me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have
>> two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.
>>
>> The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see
>> the benefit of open source
>>
>> Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically
>> App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later)
>> from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source
>> issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so
>> long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things
>> that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar
>> became the answer to my prayers.
>>
>> Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many
>> you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole
>> what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an
>> opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the
>> closed source case, not so much.
>>
>> Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.
>>
>> Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...
>>
>> Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out
>> there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other
>> than by providing something geared for appliance folks.
>>
>> Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP
>> > release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it
>> > completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect
>> > becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum.
>> > This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means
>> even
>> > more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens
>> > the Sun even more.
>> >
>> > A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962
>> > thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough,
>> as
>> > the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot
>> > from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge
>> Raspberry
>> > Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
>> >
>> >
>> > ....LMAO....
>> >
>> >
>> > 73, David KB4FXC
>> >
>> >

14

David,

I haven’t seen anything from anyone saying you need to publish your code under AllStarLink. You wouldn’t publish your code while Jim Dixon was still alive, so for me this ownership argument doesn’t hold any water.

Publish your code wherever you please. It’s yours, nobody should try to claim ownership of it and I for one would defend you if they did. You have made some great contributions, but you have also driven wedges into this community.

I don’t care for how Mr. Fields has conducted himself at all. Just as I didn’t appreciate the constant bickering from Mr. Crompton about flaws in the usbradio driver that he could never seem to demonstrate or document. It was just childish nonsense. I was thrilled when Jim finally said “if you can do it better, go do it”. That’s how open source works. Many others have contributed to AllStar’s maturity. Are you going to tell us that Supemon wasn’t based on Allmon or Allmon2?

The code, Asterisk, apt_rpt, etc. etc. were all developed and published under GPL. Whomever is part of AllStarLink won’t own your code, nor have I seen anyone try to lay claim to anything you or Doug have written. The request has always simply been for you to comply with the GPL and publish your work.

Stop this BS now.

Kevin Walsh
W8KHW

···

On Jul 5, 2019, at 6:11 PM, David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:

Joshua,

I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While
various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this
date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't
truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and "oh, it's all GPL2"
comments.

The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software
are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which
was on the "official" Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016.
See the fine print at the bottom of this document:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Flow.pdf

AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon
died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF
that ASL has LEGAL ownership of *ANYTHING* related to Jim Dixon's estate.
While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO
ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth.

If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon's probate case, the case number is:
17STPB08347

Go to this website and search for the case number:

http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate

As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g.
github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.

So, there isn't any "face to lose." The HamVoIP team has done nothing
wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply
a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.

Enough said, I've got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames
(hearsay) fly.

73, David KB4FXC

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:

John don't go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles
respect you both as developers even though we don't agree with this move.
You're now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the
deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know
this too.

I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too
is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP
networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team
offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software
(yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.

Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was
done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own
proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a
deep connection to it after all the years you've put into it, but it was
not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to
fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so
easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit
for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don't lose face on this. It
was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is
that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift.
Please just do the right thing and let's put this behind us.

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy <bob@ruddy.net> wrote:

100% agree with everything you said.

Bob

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:

I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in
the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns
me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have
two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.

The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see
the benefit of open source

Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically
App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later)
from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source
issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so
long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things
that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar
became the answer to my prayers.

Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many
you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole
what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an
opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the
closed source case, not so much.

Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.

Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...

Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out
there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other
than by providing something geared for appliance folks.

Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.

On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:

You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP
release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it
completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect
becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum.
This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means

even

more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens
the Sun even more.

A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962
thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough,

as

the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot
from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge

Raspberry

Pi cluster, leading to world domination.

....LMAO....

73, David KB4FXC

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1 Like
15

Take legal action or shut up !

This topic mailing is not going to change anyone's mind about the issue including mine.

But this topic is nearly 40% of the message traffic in the last year.

Sorry,

I AM DONE WITH IT

Live in the misery you create ! ...unsubscribing

...mike/kb8jnm

16

Second that. This mailing list is for people to ask and answer questions about arterial and app repeat. Take your battle somewhere else. It’s selfish and ride to inflict your hysteria and dysfunction upon everyone else.

KM6TOA

Node 49245

···

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 4:24 PM Mike mm@midnighteng.com wrote:

Take legal action or shut up !

This topic mailing is not going to change anyone’s mind about the issue

including mine.

But this topic is nearly 40% of the message traffic in the last year.

Sorry,

I AM DONE WITH IT

Live in the misery you create ! …unsubscribing

…mike/kb8jnm

App_rpt-users mailing list

App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org

http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

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17

This will be my last post on this.

Legal action likely isn't viable. Unless someone has a lot of money
to piss away on legal folks. It next to never is in legal cases
where money isn't being exchanged for a product or service. So they
only people who win are the lawyers.

The more logical thing is for either group "try to beat its own
game"... And that is precisely what I see going on here.

The best advise I can give ASL is, Work on the documentation as that
is what I see as the hamvoip advantage. The wiki was a good move.

Educate users. Things like iaxrpt, and allmon2 wouldn't exist in a
closed source environment.

Give and document credit where it is due to reinforce this.

While it may be that the Hamvoip code base predates a GPL license, the
problem is there is no way to substantiate without showing the source
code. It could very well be a one way door, where all the ASL stuff,
and addons that do share their code openly are borrowed improperly
into a closed hamvoip source version. This is the problem the end
users don't get. Basically building a "better" thing, but built off
the backs of others.

It's like buying a Chinese made electronics item and saying you are
happy with the price, but then upset that more and more electronics
jobs are going overseas. You can't have it two ways.

···

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 6:24 PM Mike <mm@midnighteng.com> wrote:

Take legal action or shut up !

This topic mailing is not going to change anyone's mind about the issue
including mine.

But this topic is nearly 40% of the message traffic in the last year.

Sorry,

I AM DONE WITH IT

Live in the misery you create ! ...unsubscribing

...mike/kb8jnm

_______________________________________________
App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

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1 Like
18

ASL's existence or not is irrelevant.

Without Asterisk, no AllStarLink version could exist. Everybody including Jim Dixon relied on the GPL to be able to create derivatives of Asterisk.

That means you are bound by the GPL.

···

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, David McGough wrote:

As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g.
github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.

================================================================
Dr. Willem A. Schreuder, President, Principia Mathematica
Address: 445 Union Blvd, Suite 230, Lakewood, CO 80228, USA
Tel: (303) 716-3573 Fax: (303) 716-3575
WWW: www.prinmath.com Email: Willem.Schreuder@prinmath.com

19

Did I read correctly that David believes app_rpt is public domain and not bound by the terms of the GPL?

Here’s what I see at the top of my copy of app_rpt.c, from the 1.4pre23 version of app_rpt that exists in an installation of ASL. I’ll happily have a look at an earlier version. But if there’s another version of app_rpt.c with no explicit licensing terms, someone please point me at it and I’ll happily admit to my wrongness. But…admittedly I only go back to 2009, although I don’t think I’ve ever seen a version that did not contain this:

/*
* Asterisk -- An open source telephony toolkit.

···

*
* Copyright (C) 2002-2014, Jim Dixon, WB6NIL
*
* Jim Dixon, WB6NIL <jim@lambdatel.com>
* Serious contributions by Steve RoDgers, WA6ZFT <hwstar@rodgers.sdcoxmail.com>
*
* See http://www.asterisk.org for more information about
* the Asterisk project. Please do not directly contact
* any of the maintainers of this project for assistance;
* the project provides a web site, mailing lists and IRC
* channels for your use.
*
* This program is free software, distributed under the terms of
* the GNU General Public License Version 2. See the LICENSE file
* at the top of the source tree.
*/

Actually…I believe I have another version of app_rpt.c that mentions even more contributors, like W9SH for example. It also listed the GPL and referred to the license file in the Asterisk source tree. Actually, app_rpt.c was distributed with the GPL’ed Asterisk bistro for ages, even though it stopped working with anything after V1.4presomething. Xelatec had a version in their Xipar bistro that was based on 1.4.44pre-something, as I recall, also.

I also think Jim’s views on the GPL were pretty clear from many of his posts on this list before his death. While he certainly encouraged the Arch linux effort that became hamvoip…I remember when this was going on, and Hamvoip ran only on the BBB…and he said “If you can do better, have at it”, I’m confident in my opinion that the “Contribute your changes back to the community” was strongly implied, if not directly stated.

While I agree that my non-lawyerly opinion is that HamVOIP is in violation of the GPL, and while I also agree that this is not a division that’s any good for the ham community generally nor the ASL using community in particular, I don’t think Brian’s approach to addressing the problem is particularly helpful either. Some who are digging in their heels may be more willing to see the very valid points he makes if he did not give the arguments he poses the tone of a personal, bitter vendetta.

Now…can we please try to *heal* this rift, rather than tearing it even wider?

I’ve seen the arguments for why David has not released the source. Mostly, he has said that his changes are incompatible with non-HamVOIP distributions. OK, that’s fair, and it’s also fair to say that mixing code without properly taking into account any changes could be a pretty bad idea. But how do we know? More to the point, how do we know that someone else might see the changes, and further see a way to implement them in such a way as to make them available to everyone, in all branches of the code, or at least see a way to make something similar work? The idea that the rest of us simply can’t understand the changes and will just break more stuff if we try is a little insulting, and it doesn’t leave much room for learning. A good thing about GPL software is…lots of eyeballs can potentially spot flaws, make improvements, or see a better way. The disadvantage is that if you break it, you get to keep all the pieces. But that’s a small price to pay, IMO, for the benefits.

Vy 73,

Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Email: buddy@brannan.name
Mobile: (814) 431-0962

On Jul 5, 2019, at 10:22 PM, Willem Schreuder <willem@prinmath.com> wrote:

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, David McGough wrote:

As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g.
github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.

ASL's existence or not is irrelevant.

Without Asterisk, no AllStarLink version could exist. Everybody including Jim Dixon relied on the GPL to be able to create derivatives of Asterisk.

That means you are bound by the GPL.

================================================================
Dr. Willem A. Schreuder, President, Principia Mathematica
Address: 445 Union Blvd, Suite 230, Lakewood, CO 80228, USA
Tel: (303) 716-3573 Fax: (303) 716-3575
WWW: www.prinmath.com Email: Willem.Schreuder@prinmath.com
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20

the header of app_rpt.c on the 2011 limey distribution of allstarlink is that:

/* #define NEW_ASTERISK /
/ #define OLD_ASTERISK /
/

  • Asterisk – An open source telephony toolkit.
···
  • Copyright (C) 2002-2009, Jim Dixon, WB6NIL
  • Jim Dixon, WB6NIL jim@lambdatel.com
  • Serious contributions by Steve RoDgers, WA6ZFT hwstar@rodgers.sdcoxmail.com
  • See http://www.asterisk.org for more information about
  • the Asterisk project. Please do not directly contact
  • any of the maintainers of this project for assistance;
  • the project provides a web site, mailing lists and IRC
  • channels for your use.
  • This program is free software, distributed under the terms of
  • the GNU General Public License Version 2. See the LICENSE file
  • at the top of the source tree.
    */

It is easy to find and I really dont think anyone took the time to modify all the app_rpt.c with good time stamp on every version online of limey or acid.

the licence is pretty clear and the Jim did released the software as gpl.

Le ven. 5 juil. 2019 à 22:56, Buddy Brannan buddy@brannan.name a écrit :

Did I read correctly that David believes app_rpt is public domain and not bound by the terms of the GPL?

Here’s what I see at the top of my copy of app_rpt.c, from the 1.4pre23 version of app_rpt that exists in an installation of ASL. I’ll happily have a look at an earlier version. But if there’s another version of app_rpt.c with no explicit licensing terms, someone please point me at it and I’ll happily admit to my wrongness. But…admittedly I only go back to 2009, although I don’t think I’ve ever seen a version that did not contain this:

/*

  • Asterisk – An open source telephony toolkit.

  • Copyright (C) 2002-2014, Jim Dixon, WB6NIL

  • Jim Dixon, WB6NIL jim@lambdatel.com

  • Serious contributions by Steve RoDgers, WA6ZFT hwstar@rodgers.sdcoxmail.com

  • See http://www.asterisk.org for more information about

  • the Asterisk project. Please do not directly contact

  • any of the maintainers of this project for assistance;

  • the project provides a web site, mailing lists and IRC

  • channels for your use.

  • This program is free software, distributed under the terms of

  • the GNU General Public License Version 2. See the LICENSE file

  • at the top of the source tree.

*/

Actually…I believe I have another version of app_rpt.c that mentions even more contributors, like W9SH for example. It also listed the GPL and referred to the license file in the Asterisk source tree. Actually, app_rpt.c was distributed with the GPL’ed Asterisk bistro for ages, even though it stopped working with anything after V1.4presomething. Xelatec had a version in their Xipar bistro that was based on 1.4.44pre-something, as I recall, also.

I also think Jim’s views on the GPL were pretty clear from many of his posts on this list before his death. While he certainly encouraged the Arch linux effort that became hamvoip…I remember when this was going on, and Hamvoip ran only on the BBB…and he said “If you can do better, have at it”, I’m confident in my opinion that the “Contribute your changes back to the community” was strongly implied, if not directly stated.

While I agree that my non-lawyerly opinion is that HamVOIP is in violation of the GPL, and while I also agree that this is not a division that’s any good for the ham community generally nor the ASL using community in particular, I don’t think Brian’s approach to addressing the problem is particularly helpful either. Some who are digging in their heels may be more willing to see the very valid points he makes if he did not give the arguments he poses the tone of a personal, bitter vendetta.

Now…can we please try to heal this rift, rather than tearing it even wider?

I’ve seen the arguments for why David has not released the source. Mostly, he has said that his changes are incompatible with non-HamVOIP distributions. OK, that’s fair, and it’s also fair to say that mixing code without properly taking into account any changes could be a pretty bad idea. But how do we know? More to the point, how do we know that someone else might see the changes, and further see a way to implement them in such a way as to make them available to everyone, in all branches of the code, or at least see a way to make something similar work? The idea that the rest of us simply can’t understand the changes and will just break more stuff if we try is a little insulting, and it doesn’t leave much room for learning. A good thing about GPL software is…lots of eyeballs can potentially spot flaws, make improvements, or see a better way. The disadvantage is that if you break it, you get to keep all the pieces. But that’s a small price to pay, IMO, for the benefits.

Vy 73,

Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA

Email: buddy@brannan.name

Mobile: (814) 431-0962

On Jul 5, 2019, at 10:22 PM, Willem Schreuder willem@prinmath.com wrote:

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, David McGough wrote:

As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g.

github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL’s existence.

ASL’s existence or not is irrelevant.

Without Asterisk, no AllStarLink version could exist. Everybody including Jim Dixon relied on the GPL to be able to create derivatives of Asterisk.

That means you are bound by the GPL.

================================================================

Dr. Willem A. Schreuder, President, Principia Mathematica

Address: 445 Union Blvd, Suite 230, Lakewood, CO 80228, USA

Tel: (303) 716-3573 Fax: (303) 716-3575

WWW: www.prinmath.com Email: Willem.Schreuder@prinmath.com

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21

Well, it seems to be true that registration complaints come primarily from hamvoip as we seldom see those problems on this list. I think that’s because the Pi crowd tends to turn off their nodes way more often than others. It does take a while for the IP address of recently powered up nodes propagate. Hamvoip fixed that but won’t share the code so it might look like ASL registration is broken to some.

VE2PF’s theory of “the other distro playing with registration” isn’t so far fetched. In fact, there’s a whole lot of truth to that.

···

Tim WD6AWP

22

The AllStar branding did come later.

The AllStar brand started when the infrastructure (portal, registration, IP distribution and ham network) came to be as embodied in allstarlink.org. Back then AllStar was the ham network and app_rpt was the Asterisk application. I still like that delineation because anyone can use app_rpt (such as GMRS) but only hams can use the AllStar network.

Water under the bridge, it’s all AllStar now.

···

Tim WD6AWP

23

Zapatelephony predates both app_rpt and Asterisk. Asterisk and app_rpt are based on concepts presented on the Zapatelephony web site. This bit of history is not well understood but Todd Lesser (who’s name in on that site and is a current AllStar board member) was there through it all. That Zapatelephony site is about the circuit board. Read the whole http://zapatatelephony.org web site, not just the one page taken out of context.

The Zapatelephony circuit board was released under public domain to lower the cost of PBX creation. Asterisk and app_rpt have been open source since day one. There is no question about that any “proof” to the contrary is plainly wrong.

···

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM David McGough kb4fxc@inttek.net wrote:

Joshua,

I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While

various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this

date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn’t

truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and “oh, it’s all GPL2”

comments.

The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software

are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which

was on the “official” Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016.

See the fine print at the bottom of this document:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Flow.pdf

AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon

died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF

that ASL has LEGAL ownership of ANYTHING related to Jim Dixon’s estate.

While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO

ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn’t truth.

If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon’s probate case, the case number is:

17STPB08347

Go to this website and search for the case number:

http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate

As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g.

github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL’s existence.

So, there isn’t any “face to lose.” The HamVoIP team has done nothing

wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply

a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.

Enough said, I’ve got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames

(hearsay) fly.

73, David KB4FXC

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:

John don’t go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles

respect you both as developers even though we don’t agree with this move.

You’re now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the

deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know

this too.

I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too

is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP

networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team

offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software

(yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.

Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was

done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own

proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a

deep connection to it after all the years you’ve put into it, but it was

not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to

fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so

easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit

for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don’t lose face on this. It

was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is

that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift.

Please just do the right thing and let’s put this behind us.

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy bob@ruddy.net wrote:

100% agree with everything you said.

Bob

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L kb9mwr@gmail.com wrote:

I won’t go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in

the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns

me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have

two groups of people who don’t see eye-to eye.

The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don’t see

the benefit of open source

Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically

App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later)

from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source

issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so

long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things

that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn’t allow me to. Allstar

became the answer to my prayers.

Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many

you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole

what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an

opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the

closed source case, not so much.

Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.

Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me…

Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out

there, I don’t see how the project gives back to the community, other

than by providing something geared for appliance folks.

Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.

On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough kb4fxc@inttek.net wrote:

You forgot to mention that “secret spy” software included in the HamVoIP

release is designed to dampen the Sun’s double-oscillator, throwing it

completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect

becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum.

This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means

even

more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens

the Sun even more.

A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962

thriller “Dr. No,” SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough,

as

the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot

from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge

Raspberry

Pi cluster, leading to world domination.

…LMAO…

73, David KB4FXC

App_rpt-users mailing list

App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org

http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

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–
Tim WD6AWP

24

I asked Todd to comment on this. He has done so here: https://community.allstarlink.org/t/history-of-zapata-telephony-asterisk-allstar-and-app-rpt-open-source/15162

···

Tim WD6AWP

25

Seems pretty clear to me. It seemed pretty clear to me when V1.5RC was released a couple years ago and I, among others, asked about why the source was not forthcoming. The reasons seem to change somewhat every so often. I’d have to look at the original email, but it definitely didn’t mention any belief that app_rpt or anything related was public domain.

Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Email: buddy@brannan.name
Mobile: (814) 431-0962

···

On Jul 7, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> wrote:

I asked Todd to comment on this. He has done so here: History of Zapata Telephony, Asterisk, Allstar and app_rpt open source

On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:56 AM Tim Sawyer <tisawyer@gmail.com> wrote:
Zapatelephony predates both app_rpt and Asterisk. Asterisk and app_rpt are based on concepts presented on the Zapatelephony web site. This bit of history is not well understood but Todd Lesser (who's name in on that site and is a current AllStar board member) was there through it all. That Zapatelephony site is about the circuit board. Read the whole http://zapatatelephony.org web site, not just the one page taken out of context.

The Zapatelephony circuit board was released under public domain to lower the cost of PBX creation. Asterisk and app_rpt have been open source since day one. There is no question about that any "proof" to the contrary is plainly wrong.

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:

Joshua,

I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While
various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this
date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't
truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and "oh, it's all GPL2"
comments.

The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software
are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which
was on the "official" Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016.
See the fine print at the bottom of this document:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Flow.pdf

AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon
died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF
that ASL has LEGAL ownership of *ANYTHING* related to Jim Dixon's estate.
While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO
ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn't truth.

If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon's probate case, the case number is:
17STPB08347

Go to this website and search for the case number:

http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate

As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g.
github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL's existence.

So, there isn't any "face to lose." The HamVoIP team has done nothing
wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply
a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.

Enough said, I've got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames
(hearsay) fly.

73, David KB4FXC

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:

> John don't go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles
> respect you both as developers even though we don't agree with this move.
> You're now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the
> deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know
> this too.
>
> I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too
> is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP
> networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team
> offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software
> (yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.
>
> Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was
> done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own
> proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a
> deep connection to it after all the years you've put into it, but it was
> not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to
> fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so
> easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit
> for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don't lose face on this. It
> was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is
> that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift.
> Please just do the right thing and let's put this behind us.
>
> On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy <bob@ruddy.net> wrote:
>
> > 100% agree with everything you said.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L <kb9mwr@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I won't go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in
> >> the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns
> >> me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have
> >> two groups of people who don't see eye-to eye.
> >>
> >> The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don't see
> >> the benefit of open source
> >>
> >> Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically
> >> App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later)
> >> from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source
> >> issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so
> >> long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things
> >> that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn't allow me to. Allstar
> >> became the answer to my prayers.
> >>
> >> Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many
> >> you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole
> >> what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an
> >> opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the
> >> closed source case, not so much.
> >>
> >> Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.
> >>
> >> Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me...
> >>
> >> Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out
> >> there, I don't see how the project gives back to the community, other
> >> than by providing something geared for appliance folks.
> >>
> >> Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > You forgot to mention that "secret spy" software included in the HamVoIP
> >> > release is designed to dampen the Sun's double-oscillator, throwing it
> >> > completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect
> >> > becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum.
> >> > This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means
> >> even
> >> > more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens
> >> > the Sun even more.
> >> >
> >> > A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962
> >> > thriller "Dr. No," SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough,
> >> as
> >> > the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot
> >> > from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge
> >> Raspberry
> >> > Pi cluster, leading to world domination.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ....LMAO....
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 73, David KB4FXC
> >> >
> >> >

_______________________________________________
App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.

--
Tim WD6AWP

--
Tim WD6AWP
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or edit options button"
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1 Like
26

They definitely didn’t say anything about public domain and actually acknowledged on their web page that it open source! In other words, they knew it was open source when they chose to download the source code. They knew that any changes they made and redistributed that they have to release back to the community.

https://www.hamvoip.org

“Why Allstar?

We are often asked why Allstar with all of the new RF digital repeaters and their VOIP connection schemes out there. The best answer is open source, quality audio, and freedom to do what you want. Dstar, Fusion, DMR, etc are all at least partially if not completely proprietary systems…”

To make matters even worse, they now they are monetizing on all the work many people have done to make Allstar what it is today by asking for people to send them money!

I know there are some personality conflicts with Doug and some of the tech support people. I personally have tried to be the buffer and was rebuffed. There is no excuse not to release the code.

Jim Dixon would be so upset if he was alive today.
Shame on them.

1 Like
27

HamVoIP is calling AllStarLink illegitimate, AGAIN. They say we “hijacked” AllStarLink.

That’s complete BS! When Jim Dixon died we (Kevin Custer, Steve Zingman and myself) were contacted by two of the principal creators and supporters of AllStarLink, Steve Rodgers and David Kramer. We were tasked with keeping AllStar operational and given access to the servers. There is a email from Steve plainly stating that. Furthermore, the majority of the AllStarBoard is made up of members who worked closely, even daily, with Jim.

Here’s the post from Steve: Jim Dixon's passing, and Allstar Link transition as posted on app_rpt-users.

I don’t know how many times we have to squash the BS from HamVoIP, but I will continue to do so for as long as it takes.

2 Likes
28

They definitely didn’t say anything about public domain and actually acknowledged on their web page that it open source! In other words, they knew it was open source when they chose to download the source code. They knew that any changes they made and redistributed that they have to release back to the community.

https://www.hamvoip.org

“Why Allstar?

We are often asked why Allstar with all of the new RF digital repeaters and their VOIP connection schemes out there. The best answer is open source, quality audio, and freedom to do what you want. Dstar, Fusion, DMR, etc are all at least partially if not completely proprietary systems…”

To make matters even worse, they now they are monetizing on all the work many people have done to make Allstar what it is today by asking for people to send them money!

I know there are some personality conflicts with Doug and some of the tech support people. I personally have tried to be the buffer and was rebuffed. There is no excuse not to release the code.

Jim Dixon would be so upset if he was alive today.
Shame on them.

···

On Jul 7, 2019, at 17:00, Buddy Brannan buddy@brannan.name wrote:

Seems pretty clear to me. It seemed pretty clear to me when V1.5RC was released a couple years ago and I, among others, asked about why the source was not forthcoming. The reasons seem to change somewhat every so often. I’d have to look at the original email, but it definitely didn’t mention any belief that app_rpt or anything related was public domain.

Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Email: buddy@brannan.name
Mobile: (814) 431-0962

On Jul 7, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Tim Sawyer tisawyer@gmail.com wrote:

I asked Todd to comment on this. He has done so here: History of Zapata Telephony, Asterisk, Allstar and app_rpt open source

On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:56 AM Tim Sawyer tisawyer@gmail.com wrote:
Zapatelephony predates both app_rpt and Asterisk. Asterisk and app_rpt are based on concepts presented on the Zapatelephony web site. This bit of history is not well understood but Todd Lesser (who’s name in on that site and is a current AllStar board member) was there through it all. That Zapatelephony site is about the circuit board. Read the whole http://zapatatelephony.org web site, not just the one page taken out of context.

The Zapatelephony circuit board was released under public domain to lower the cost of PBX creation. Asterisk and app_rpt have been open source since day one. There is no question about that any “proof” to the contrary is plainly wrong.

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM David McGough kb4fxc@inttek.net wrote:

Joshua,

I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While
various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this
date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn’t
truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and “oh, it’s all GPL2”
comments.

The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software
are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which
was on the “official” Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016.
See the fine print at the bottom of this document:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Flow.pdf

AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon
died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF
that ASL has LEGAL ownership of ANYTHING related to Jim Dixon’s estate.
While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO
ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn’t truth.

If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon’s probate case, the case number is:
17STPB08347

Go to this website and search for the case number:

http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate

As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g.
github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL’s existence.

So, there isn’t any “face to lose.” The HamVoIP team has done nothing
wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply
a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.

Enough said, I’ve got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames
(hearsay) fly.

73, David KB4FXC

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:

John don’t go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles
respect you both as developers even though we don’t agree with this move.
You’re now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the
deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know
this too.

I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too
is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP
networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team
offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software
(yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.

Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was
done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own
proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a
deep connection to it after all the years you’ve put into it, but it was
not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to
fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so
easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit
for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don’t lose face on this. It
was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is
that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift.
Please just do the right thing and let’s put this behind us.

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy bob@ruddy.net wrote:

100% agree with everything you said.

Bob

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L kb9mwr@gmail.com wrote:

I won’t go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in
the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns
me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have
two groups of people who don’t see eye-to eye.

The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don’t see
the benefit of open source

Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically
App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later)
from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source
issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so
long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things
that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn’t allow me to. Allstar
became the answer to my prayers.

Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many
you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole
what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an
opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the
closed source case, not so much.

Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.

Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me…

Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out
there, I don’t see how the project gives back to the community, other
than by providing something geared for appliance folks.

Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.

On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough kb4fxc@inttek.net wrote:

You forgot to mention that “secret spy” software included in the HamVoIP
release is designed to dampen the Sun’s double-oscillator, throwing it
completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect
becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum.
This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means
even
more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens
the Sun even more.

A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962
thriller “Dr. No,” SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough,
as
the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot
from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge
Raspberry
Pi cluster, leading to world domination.

…LMAO…

73, David KB4FXC

App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the “Unsubscribe or edit options button”
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.

–
Tim WD6AWP

–
Tim WD6AWP

App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the “Unsubscribe or edit options button”
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.

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29

Here is a direct recording from Doug Crompton on his interview on QSO today:

He states the downside of IRLP on the closed source manner, and the fact is operated by one person, and then later states the benefits of AllStar

Sounds familiar Doug??

kg0sky.duckdns.org/doug_crompton.wav

Whole interview can be found here:

https://www.qsotoday.com/podcasts/wa3dsp

···

On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 9:58 AM todd@lesser.com todd@nccom.com wrote:

They definitely didn’t say anything about public domain and actually acknowledged on their web page that it open source! In other words, they knew it was open source when they chose to download the source code. They knew that any changes they made and redistributed that they have to release back to the community.

https://www.hamvoip.org

“Why Allstar?

We are often asked why Allstar with all of the new RF digital repeaters and their VOIP connection schemes out there. The best answer is open source, quality audio, and freedom to do what you want. Dstar, Fusion, DMR, etc are all at least partially if not completely proprietary systems…”

To make matters even worse, they now they are monetizing on all the work many people have done to make Allstar what it is today by asking for people to send them money!

I know there are some personality conflicts with Doug and some of the tech support people. I personally have tried to be the buffer and was rebuffed. There is no excuse not to release the code.

Jim Dixon would be so upset if he was alive today.
Shame on them.

On Jul 7, 2019, at 17:00, Buddy Brannan buddy@brannan.name wrote:

Seems pretty clear to me. It seemed pretty clear to me when V1.5RC was released a couple years ago and I, among others, asked about why the source was not forthcoming. The reasons seem to change somewhat every so often. I’d have to look at the original email, but it definitely didn’t mention any belief that app_rpt or anything related was public domain.

Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Email: buddy@brannan.name
Mobile: (814) 431-0962

On Jul 7, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Tim Sawyer tisawyer@gmail.com wrote:

I asked Todd to comment on this. He has done so here: https://community.allstarlink.org/t/history-of-zapata-telephony-asterisk-allstar-and-app-rpt-open-source/15162

On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:56 AM Tim Sawyer tisawyer@gmail.com wrote:
Zapatelephony predates both app_rpt and Asterisk. Asterisk and app_rpt are based on concepts presented on the Zapatelephony web site. This bit of history is not well understood but Todd Lesser (who’s name in on that site and is a current AllStar board member) was there through it all. That Zapatelephony site is about the circuit board. Read the whole http://zapatatelephony.org web site, not just the one page taken out of context.

The Zapatelephony circuit board was released under public domain to lower the cost of PBX creation. Asterisk and app_rpt have been open source since day one. There is no question about that any “proof” to the contrary is plainly wrong.

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM David McGough kb4fxc@inttek.net wrote:

Joshua,

I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While
various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this
date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn’t
truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and “oh, it’s all GPL2”
comments.

The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software
are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which
was on the “official” Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016.
See the fine print at the bottom of this document:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Flow.pdf

AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon
died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF
that ASL has LEGAL ownership of ANYTHING related to Jim Dixon’s estate.
While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO
ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn’t truth.

If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon’s probate case, the case number is:
17STPB08347

Go to this website and search for the case number:

http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate

As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g.
github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL’s existence.

So, there isn’t any “face to lose.” The HamVoIP team has done nothing
wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply
a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.

Enough said, I’ve got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames
(hearsay) fly.

73, David KB4FXC

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:

John don’t go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles
respect you both as developers even though we don’t agree with this move.
You’re now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the
deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know
this too.

I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too
is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP
networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team
offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software
(yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.

Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was
done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own
proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a
deep connection to it after all the years you’ve put into it, but it was
not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to
fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so
easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit
for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don’t lose face on this. It
was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is
that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift.
Please just do the right thing and let’s put this behind us.

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy bob@ruddy.net wrote:

100% agree with everything you said.

Bob

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L kb9mwr@gmail.com wrote:

I won’t go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in
the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns
me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have
two groups of people who don’t see eye-to eye.

The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don’t see
the benefit of open source

Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically
App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later)
from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source
issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so
long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things
that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn’t allow me to. Allstar
became the answer to my prayers.

Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many
you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole
what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an
opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the
closed source case, not so much.

Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.

Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me…

Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out
there, I don’t see how the project gives back to the community, other
than by providing something geared for appliance folks.

Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.

On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough kb4fxc@inttek.net wrote:

You forgot to mention that “secret spy” software included in the HamVoIP
release is designed to dampen the Sun’s double-oscillator, throwing it
completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect
becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum.
This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means
even
more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens
the Sun even more.

A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962
thriller “Dr. No,” SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough,
as
the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot
from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge
Raspberry
Pi cluster, leading to world domination.

…LMAO…

73, David KB4FXC

App_rpt-users mailing list
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–
Tim WD6AWP

–
Tim WD6AWP

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30

Hey that’s a good one!

···

Le mar. 9 juill. 2019 12 h 21, Skyler F electricity440@gmail.com a écrit :

Here is a direct recording from Doug Crompton on his interview on QSO today:

He states the downside of IRLP on the closed source manner, and the fact is operated by one person, and then later states the benefits of AllStar

Sounds familiar Doug??

kg0sky.duckdns.org/doug_crompton.wav

Whole interview can be found here:

https://www.qsotoday.com/podcasts/wa3dsp

On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 9:58 AM todd@lesser.com todd@nccom.com wrote:

They definitely didn’t say anything about public domain and actually acknowledged on their web page that it open source! In other words, they knew it was open source when they chose to download the source code. They knew that any changes they made and redistributed that they have to release back to the community.

https://www.hamvoip.org

“Why Allstar?

We are often asked why Allstar with all of the new RF digital repeaters and their VOIP connection schemes out there. The best answer is open source, quality audio, and freedom to do what you want. Dstar, Fusion, DMR, etc are all at least partially if not completely proprietary systems…”

To make matters even worse, they now they are monetizing on all the work many people have done to make Allstar what it is today by asking for people to send them money!

I know there are some personality conflicts with Doug and some of the tech support people. I personally have tried to be the buffer and was rebuffed. There is no excuse not to release the code.

Jim Dixon would be so upset if he was alive today.
Shame on them.

On Jul 7, 2019, at 17:00, Buddy Brannan buddy@brannan.name wrote:

Seems pretty clear to me. It seemed pretty clear to me when V1.5RC was released a couple years ago and I, among others, asked about why the source was not forthcoming. The reasons seem to change somewhat every so often. I’d have to look at the original email, but it definitely didn’t mention any belief that app_rpt or anything related was public domain.

Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Email: buddy@brannan.name
Mobile: (814) 431-0962

On Jul 7, 2019, at 2:59 PM, Tim Sawyer tisawyer@gmail.com wrote:

I asked Todd to comment on this. He has done so here: https://community.allstarlink.org/t/history-of-zapata-telephony-asterisk-allstar-and-app-rpt-open-source/15162

On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 9:56 AM Tim Sawyer tisawyer@gmail.com wrote:
Zapatelephony predates both app_rpt and Asterisk. Asterisk and app_rpt are based on concepts presented on the Zapatelephony web site. This bit of history is not well understood but Todd Lesser (who’s name in on that site and is a current AllStar board member) was there through it all. That Zapatelephony site is about the circuit board. Read the whole http://zapatatelephony.org web site, not just the one page taken out of context.

The Zapatelephony circuit board was released under public domain to lower the cost of PBX creation. Asterisk and app_rpt have been open source since day one. There is no question about that any “proof” to the contrary is plainly wrong.

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 3:11 PM David McGough kb4fxc@inttek.net wrote:

Joshua,

I am now restating FACTS which have been presented multiple times. While
various persons will quickly try and dispute these statements, to this
date, NO ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn’t
truth. There continues to be plenty of hearsay and “oh, it’s all GPL2”
comments.

The fact is that I firmly believe that app_rpt and some related software
are dedicated to the public domain, as is stated in this document which
was on the “official” Zapata Telephony website from 2005 through 2016.
See the fine print at the bottom of this document:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160315124205/http://zapatatelephony.org/Rpt_Flow.pdf

AllStar Link Inc (ASL) is an organization which formed after Jim Dixon
died INTESTATE (he had no will). I have not been presented with any PROOF
that ASL has LEGAL ownership of ANYTHING related to Jim Dixon’s estate.
While various persons will quickly dispute this statement with hearsay, NO
ONE has provided ANY LEGAL PROOF that this information isn’t truth.

If you wish to lookup Jim Dixon’s probate case, the case number is:
17STPB08347

Go to this website and search for the case number:

http://www.lacourt.org/casesummary/ui/index.aspx?casetype=probate

As a matter of record, no HamVoIP code comes from any ASL source (e.g.
github). Our codebase pre-dates ASL’s existence.

So, there isn’t any “face to lose.” The HamVoIP team has done nothing
wrong. My earlier post, which is at the bottom of this message, is simply
a response to the stupidity of implications being made by others.

Enough said, I’ve got other more important fish to fry. Now let the flames
(hearsay) fly.

73, David KB4FXC

On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, Joshua Nulton wrote:

John don’t go so far as to lose the dignity. Many of us in both aisles
respect you both as developers even though we don’t agree with this move.
You’re now making jokes about something serious and most who understand the
deeper issues know it is not a laughing matter, as a developer you know
this too.

I am not bashing you guys. I know you guys have good intentions. Doug too
is a good man. You have made Pi specific improvements, you know VoIP
networking very well (probably better than the ASL team) and your team
offers TONS of support to the public. But those of us who know software
(yourself included) also know you are not doing the right thing.

Forking software is one thing, and is acceptable, but that is not what was
done. You can not take open source software and brand it as your own
proprietary product, released as a package or not. I am sure you feel a
deep connection to it after all the years you’ve put into it, but it was
not yours to foster in the first place. Worse than that you are trying to
fork the entire community. It is getting ugly and you could fix it all so
easily. Your improvements are good, so commit it to master, take the credit
for it and be done with what could get nasty. Don’t lose face on this. It
was a gift to all of us on the condition that it remain open, it really is
that simple. Have some respect for Jim and the team that gave us this gift.
Please just do the right thing and let’s put this behind us.

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 2:49 PM Robert Ruddy bob@ruddy.net wrote:

100% agree with everything you said.

Bob

On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 13:37 Steve L kb9mwr@gmail.com wrote:

I won’t go so far as to suggest there could be something nefarious in
the compiled hamvoip code. That is something that really on concerns
me with big corporations like Sony Rootkit scandal. Here we just have
two groups of people who don’t see eye-to eye.

The bigger problem is the folks (user base/end users) that don’t see
the benefit of open source

Well I will share the reason I moved to Allstar (or more specifically
App_rpt at the time, because I think the Allstar branding came later)
from the IRLP platform was IRLP suffered the same lack of source
issues. And I am no appliance operator. I can only be satisfied so
long being and end user. I wanted to modify things, change things
that that the closed IRLP platform wouldn’t allow me to. Allstar
became the answer to my prayers.

Sure Hamvoip can be a good place to start, but if you are like many
you will be unsatisfied at some point later. Then there is the whole
what happens if some dies (like Jim did) or pulls the plug? In an
opensource environment, the project can live on, like it has. In the
closed source case, not so much.

Same reasons I moved away from DD-WRT (no source code) and favored Tomato.

Same reason AMBE bugs the heck out of me…

Aside from a good number of documents that the Hamvoip guy have out
there, I don’t see how the project gives back to the community, other
than by providing something geared for appliance folks.

Ham radio is and always has been a work together thing.

On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 10:07 PM David McGough kb4fxc@inttek.net wrote:

You forgot to mention that “secret spy” software included in the HamVoIP
release is designed to dampen the Sun’s double-oscillator, throwing it
completely out of phase. With each new HamVoIP node deployed, the effect
becomes more pronounced, ultimately causing a Maunder Sunspot Minimum.
This, of course, is to the HamVoIP advantage, since no sunspots means
even
more hams will need AllStar for communications. Which, in turn, dampens
the Sun even more.

A movie is already in production. In this remake of the classic 1962
thriller “Dr. No,” SPECTRE is replaced SPARKY, AKA: John David McGough,
as
the Arch villain (running Arch Linux, of course). In a twist of the plot
from the original movie, SKYNET is accidentally created by huge
Raspberry
Pi cluster, leading to world domination.

…LMAO…

73, David KB4FXC

App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users@lists.allstarlink.org
http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the “Unsubscribe or edit options button”
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.

–
Tim WD6AWP

–
Tim WD6AWP

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To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://lists.allstarlink.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the “Unsubscribe or edit options button”
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31

I tried. See their response. In my opinion, it is disgraceful and inaccurate how they portrayed Jim Dixon. I will let you reach your own conclusion concerning their motivation. Response.pdf (53.4 KB) Your email.pdf (69.4 KB)