usbfobs

App_rpt-users
1

I have had a few fake products delivered, but always they are extremely fast on the 'refund and apologise profusely' button. I wouldn't call it a bad experience.

S

···

On 06/07/16 04:00, app_rpt-users-request@ohnosec.org wrote:

Have you purchased and used any of the chips from Alibaba? I have had BAD luck in the past getting
cm119's from eBay and such. I get them from a CMedia distributor for about $2 each. Yes, they are
more expensive, but I know if I take the time to solder them to a board, they will work!!!

2

Soldering a 48 pin LQFP and having it be fake is nothing short of a bad experience. Like Scott, I recently purchased a fair quantity of CM119A's from a top CM distributor. They told us the CM119 and CM119A are now legacy products and the CM119B is current. Unfortunately, the B model doesn't use a crystal and several developers agree that they may not be suitable for digital and analog radio adapter applications. There were still a few hundred CM119A's in the distribution chain as of a few months ago.

Kevin

···

On 06/07/16 04:00, Scott Zimmerman wrote:

Have you purchased and used any of the chips from Alibaba? I have had BAD luck in the past getting
cm119's from eBay and such. I get them from a CMedia distributor for about $2 each. Yes, they are
more expensive, but I know if I take the time to solder them to a board, they will work!!!

On 7/5/2016 3:09 PM, Steve Wright wrote:
I have had a few fake products delivered, but always they are extremely fast on the 'refund and apologise profusely' button. I wouldn't call it a bad experience.

3

If the CM119 is dead, then we should scrap it. I can't really see why we are focussing on that devices' built-in I/O, when we have computing devices such as RPI3 with scads of easily accessible I/O.

Linux sound is really well developed - "just works everywhere" I'd say. Why not build or reuse a DSP-based driver for that, that will handle voting - now we are in business with all the toys, for the foreseeable future. Likely a simple CLI config tool could be developed too - choose RX audio device, TX audio device, signalling, save settings, done. Rinse and repeat for three devices.

Hardware VOTERs are fine for a single repeater with a few outboard receivers, but way too much money for non-millionaire clubs to convert "everything" to asterisk - they will stick with their IRLP node for sure, and that is a tragedy.. I see a few members here and elsewhere make it their business to put tens of thousands of $$ into communication systems, and that's enviable and laudable, but 90% of constructors don't exist on that rarefied plane.

S

···

On 06/07/16 11:44, Kevin Custer wrote:

Soldering a 48 pin LQFP and having it be fake is nothing short of a bad experience. Like Scott, I recently purchased a fair quantity of CM119A's from a top CM distributor. They told us the CM119 and CM119A are now legacy products and the CM119B is current. Unfortunately, the B model doesn't use a crystal and several developers agree that they may not be suitable for digital and analog radio adapter applications. There were still a few hundred CM119A's in the distribution chain as of a few months ago.

4

Steve,

The CM108/CM119 is nowhere near dead! Even if CM stops manufacture, there
will be decent "clones" of it for years to come. No worries about that!

If you're needing some FOBs, I understand the shipping issues you've got,
being in NZ. I just checked the US Postal Service shipping site and a
"First Class Mail International Large Envelope" is under $20USD for 2
lbs., shipped from the USA to NZ. Priority mail, where you could ship a
small box in under a week, starts at about $64USD. See:

https://ircalc.usps.com/?country=10324

Why not just work a "bulk quantity" deal with Kevin or Scott to sell you
and ship you a hand full of their RIM-lite adapters??? Then, you'll in
good shape for now.

73, David KB4FXC

···

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016, Steve Wright wrote:

On 06/07/16 11:44, Kevin Custer wrote:
> Soldering a 48 pin LQFP and having it be fake is nothing short of a
> bad experience. Like Scott, I recently purchased a fair quantity of
> CM119A's from a top CM distributor. They told us the CM119 and CM119A
> are now legacy products and the CM119B is current. Unfortunately, the
> B model doesn't use a crystal and several developers agree that they
> may not be suitable for digital and analog radio adapter
> applications. There were still a few hundred CM119A's in the
> distribution chain as of a few months ago.

If the CM119 is dead, then we should scrap it. I can't really see why
we are focussing on that devices' built-in I/O, when we have computing
devices such as RPI3 with scads of easily accessible I/O.

Linux sound is really well developed - "just works everywhere" I'd say.
Why not build or reuse a DSP-based driver for that, that will handle
voting - now we are in business with all the toys, for the foreseeable
future. Likely a simple CLI config tool could be developed too - choose
RX audio device, TX audio device, signalling, save settings, done.
Rinse and repeat for three devices.

Hardware VOTERs are fine for a single repeater with a few outboard
receivers, but way too much money for non-millionaire clubs to convert
"everything" to asterisk - they will stick with their IRLP node for
sure, and that is a tragedy.. I see a few members here and elsewhere
make it their business to put tens of thousands of $$ into communication
systems, and that's enviable and laudable, but 90% of constructors don't
exist on that rarefied plane.

S

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5

Has anybody heard of DireWolf, the sound card AFSK packet linux software? I like it because there is a config file for PTT, so you can set it to anything, a GPIO pin on a raspberry pi, a CM108 pin 13 using hamlib and rigctld, and much more. It works with any sound card. It would be nice if AllStar was like that.

···

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 6:40 PM, David McGough kb4fxc@inttek.net wrote:

Steve,

The CM108/CM119 is nowhere near dead! Even if CM stops manufacture, there

will be decent “clones” of it for years to come. No worries about that!

If you’re needing some FOBs, I understand the shipping issues you’ve got,

being in NZ. I just checked the US Postal Service shipping site and a

“First Class Mail International Large Envelope” is under $20USD for 2

lbs., shipped from the USA to NZ. Priority mail, where you could ship a

small box in under a week, starts at about $64USD. See:

https://ircalc.usps.com/?country=10324

Why not just work a “bulk quantity” deal with Kevin or Scott to sell you

and ship you a hand full of their RIM-lite adapters??? Then, you’ll in

good shape for now.

http://www.repeater-builder.com/products/usb-rim-lite.html

73, David KB4FXC

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016, Steve Wright wrote:

On 06/07/16 11:44, Kevin Custer wrote:

Soldering a 48 pin LQFP and having it be fake is nothing short of a

bad experience. Like Scott, I recently purchased a fair quantity of

CM119A’s from a top CM distributor. They told us the CM119 and CM119A

are now legacy products and the CM119B is current. Unfortunately, the

B model doesn’t use a crystal and several developers agree that they

may not be suitable for digital and analog radio adapter

applications. There were still a few hundred CM119A’s in the

distribution chain as of a few months ago.

If the CM119 is dead, then we should scrap it. I can’t really see why

we are focussing on that devices’ built-in I/O, when we have computing

devices such as RPI3 with scads of easily accessible I/O.

Linux sound is really well developed - “just works everywhere” I’d say.

Why not build or reuse a DSP-based driver for that, that will handle

voting - now we are in business with all the toys, for the foreseeable

future. Likely a simple CLI config tool could be developed too - choose

RX audio device, TX audio device, signalling, save settings, done.

Rinse and repeat for three devices.

Hardware VOTERs are fine for a single repeater with a few outboard

receivers, but way too much money for non-millionaire clubs to convert

“everything” to asterisk - they will stick with their IRLP node for

sure, and that is a tragedy… I see a few members here and elsewhere

make it their business to put tens of thousands of $$ into communication

systems, and that’s enviable and laudable, but 90% of constructors don’t

exist on that rarefied plane.

S

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–

Skyler Fennell
amsatnet.info

KDØWHB

electricity440@gmail.com

6

I would ask a different question - why do we still use slow USB devices rather than ones directly attached to the Pi’s bus?

Steven Donegan
KK6IVC General Class FCC License
FAA PP-ASEL Pilots License
Silver State Car #86

···

From: David McGough kb4fxc@inttek.net
To: app_rpt mailing list app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] usbfobs

Steve,

The CM108/CM119 is nowhere near dead! Even if CM stops manufacture, there
will be decent “clones” of it for years to come. No worries about that!

If you’re needing some FOBs, I understand the shipping issues you’ve got,
being in NZ. I just checked the US Postal Service shipping site and a
“First Class Mail International Large Envelope” is under $20USD for 2
lbs., shipped from the USA to NZ. Priority mail, where you could ship a
small box in under a week, starts at about $64USD. See:

https://ircalc.usps.com/?country=10324

Why not just work a “bulk quantity” deal with Kevin or Scott to sell you
and ship you a hand full of their RIM-lite adapters??? Then, you’ll in
good shape for now.

http://www.repeater-builder.com/products/usb-rim-lite.html

73, David KB4FXC

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016, Steve Wright wrote:

On 06/07/16 11:44, Kevin Custer wrote:

Soldering a 48 pin LQFP and having it be fake is nothing short of a
bad experience. Like Scott, I recently purchased a fair quantity of
CM119A’s from a top CM distributor. They told us the CM119 and CM119A
are now legacy products and the CM119B is current. Unfortunately, the
B model doesn’t use a crystal and several developers agree that they
may not be suitable for digital and analog radio adapter
applications. There were still a few hundred CM119A’s in the
distribution chain as of a few months ago.

If the CM119 is dead, then we should scrap it. I can’t really see why
we are focussing on that devices’ built-in I/O, when we have computing
devices such as RPI3 with scads of easily accessible I/O.

Linux sound is really well developed - “just works everywhere” I’d say.
Why not build or reuse a DSP-based driver for that, that will handle
voting - now we are in business with all the toys, for the foreseeable
future. Likely a simple CLI config tool could be developed too - choose
RX audio device, TX audio device, signalling, save settings, done.
Rinse and repeat for three devices.

Hardware VOTERs are fine for a single repeater with a few outboard
receivers, but way too much money for non-millionaire clubs to convert
“everything” to asterisk - they will stick with their IRLP node for
sure, and that is a tragedy… I see a few members here and elsewhere
make it their business to put tens of thousands of $$ into communication
systems, and that’s enviable and laudable, but 90% of constructors don’t
exist on that rarefied plane.

S

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http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

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You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.

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7

Where would someone find a "decent clone" of a CM108 or CM119A?

Kevin - W3KKC
INAD

···

On 7/5/2016 8:40 PM, David McGough wrote:

The CM108/CM119 is nowhere near dead! Even if CM stops manufacture, there
will be decent "clones" of it for years to come.

8

drivers? hardware? integration with existing codebase? takes time and (unpaid) effort.

···

–
Bryan

Sent from my iPhone 6S…No electrons were harmed in the sending of this message.

On Jul 5, 2016, at 20:54, Steven Donegan donegan@donegan.org wrote:

I would ask a different question - why do we still use slow USB devices rather than ones directly attached to the Pi’s bus?

Steven Donegan
KK6IVC General Class FCC License
FAA PP-ASEL Pilots License
Silver State Car #86
www.sscc.us

From: David McGough kb4fxc@inttek.net
To: app_rpt mailing list app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] usbfobs

Steve,

The CM108/CM119 is nowhere near dead! Even if CM stops manufacture, there
will be decent “clones” of it for years to come. No worries about that!

If you’re needing some FOBs, I understand the shipping issues you’ve got,
being in NZ. I just checked the US Postal Service shipping site and a
“First Class Mail International Large Envelope” is under $20USD for 2
lbs., shipped from the USA to NZ. Priority mail, where you could ship a
small box in under a week, starts at about $64USD. See:

https://ircalc.usps.com/?country=10324

Why not just work a “bulk quantity” deal with Kevin or Scott to sell you
and ship you a hand full of their RIM-lite adapters??? Then, you’ll in
good shape for now.

http://www.repeater-builder.com/products/usb-rim-lite.html

73, David KB4FXC

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016, Steve Wright wrote:

On 06/07/16 11:44, Kevin Custer wrote:

Soldering a 48 pin LQFP and having it be fake is nothing short of a
bad experience. Like Scott, I recently purchased a fair quantity of
CM119A’s from a top CM distributor. They told us the CM119 and CM119A
are now legacy products and the CM119B is current. Unfortunately, the
B model doesn’t use a crystal and several developers agree that they
may not be suitable for digital and analog radio adapter
applications. There were still a few hundred CM119A’s in the
distribution chain as of a few months ago.

If the CM119 is dead, then we should scrap it. I can’t really see why
we are focussing on that devices’ built-in I/O, when we have computing
devices such as RPI3 with scads of easily accessible I/O.

Linux sound is really well developed - “just works everywhere” I’d say.
Why not build or reuse a DSP-based driver for that, that will handle
voting - now we are in business with all the toys, for the foreseeable
future. Likely a simple CLI config tool could be developed too - choose
RX audio device, TX audio device, signalling, save settings, done.
Rinse and repeat for three devices.

Hardware VOTERs are fine for a single repeater with a few outboard
receivers, but way too much money for non-millionaire clubs to convert
“everything” to asterisk - they will stick with their IRLP node for
sure, and that is a tragedy… I see a few members here and elsewhere
make it their business to put tens of thousands of $$ into communication
systems, and that’s enviable and laudable, but 90% of constructors don’t
exist on that rarefied plane.

S

App_rpt-users mailing list
App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org
http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users

To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the “Unsubscribe or edit options button”
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.

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To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the “Unsubscribe or edit options button”
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9

I would ask a different question - why do we still use slow
USB devices rather than ones directly attached to the Pi's bus?

There are a lot of us out here that prefer to run hardened server-grade
hardware at remote tower sites rather than Pi's or other small SBC's.

        --- Jeff WN3A

···

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

10

If you look at this close, it is just a glorified op-amp.
We used a 741 for dsp on a serial line in the 90's.

What makes it tough is the I/O lines some use for PTT/COS.
and the address lines for them that may not be the same with other units.
Could just change the source code for some others.

I suggest finding a way to replace the I/O lines with something else
because ANY dsp should work fine for the audio.
I think the PI itself has them. Just have to write the code to replace it
OR use "ON-EVENT" programming to read/write to them to follow ptt/cos.

I know that is easy for me to say as I'm using Atom boards with a parallel port.
And there are plenty of I/O / DAQ boards out there that can be utilized for plenty
of I/O if the PI's I/O can't work for it.

Just remember, it was the work of others that made it so easy so far.
But a good thing never lasts forever.

...mike/kb8jnm

···

drivers? hardware? integration with existing codebase? takes time and (unpaid)
effort.

--
Bryan
Sent from my iPhone 6S...No electrons were harmed in the sending of this message.

On Jul 5, 2016, at 20:54, Steven Donegan <donegan@donegan.org> wrote:

I would ask a different question - why do we still use slow USB devices rather
than ones directly attached to the Pi's bus?

Steven Donegan
KK6IVC General Class FCC License
FAA PP-ASEL Pilots License
Silver State Car #86
www.sscc.us

From: David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net>
To: app_rpt mailing list <app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] usbfobs

Steve,

The CM108/CM119 is nowhere near dead! Even if CM stops manufacture, there
will be decent "clones" of it for years to come. No worries about that!

If you're needing some FOBs, I understand the shipping issues you've got,
being in NZ. I just checked the US Postal Service shipping site and a
"First Class Mail International Large Envelope" is under $20USD for 2
lbs., shipped from the USA to NZ. Priority mail, where you could ship a
small box in under a week, starts at about $64USD. See:

This service is currently unavailable | USPS

Why not just work a "bulk quantity" deal with Kevin or Scott to sell you
and ship you a hand full of their RIM-lite adapters??? Then, you'll in
good shape for now.

Repeater Builder USB-RIM Lite

73, David KB4FXC

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016, Steve Wright wrote:

> On 06/07/16 11:44, Kevin Custer wrote:
> > Soldering a 48 pin LQFP and having it be fake is nothing short of a
> > bad experience. Like Scott, I recently purchased a fair quantity of
> > CM119A's from a top CM distributor. They told us the CM119 and CM119A
> > are now legacy products and the CM119B is current. Unfortunately, the
> > B model doesn't use a crystal and several developers agree that they
> > may not be suitable for digital and analog radio adapter
> > applications. There were still a few hundred CM119A's in the
> > distribution chain as of a few months ago.
>
> If the CM119 is dead, then we should scrap it. I can't really see why
> we are focussing on that devices' built-in I/O, when we have computing
> devices such as RPI3 with scads of easily accessible I/O.
>
> Linux sound is really well developed - "just works everywhere" I'd say.
> Why not build or reuse a DSP-based driver for that, that will handle
> voting - now we are in business with all the toys, for the foreseeable
> future. Likely a simple CLI config tool could be developed too - choose
> RX audio device, TX audio device, signalling, save settings, done.
> Rinse and repeat for three devices.
>
> Hardware VOTERs are fine for a single repeater with a few outboard
> receivers, but way too much money for non-millionaire clubs to convert
> "everything" to asterisk - they will stick with their IRLP node for
> sure, and that is a tragedy.. I see a few members here and elsewhere
> make it their business to put tens of thousands of $$ into communication
> systems, and that's enviable and laudable, but 90% of constructors don't
> exist on that rarefied plane.
>
>
> S
>
> _______________________________________________
> App_rpt-users mailing list
> App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org
> http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
>
> To unsubscribe from this list please visit
http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to
the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the "Unsubscribe or
edit options button"
> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email
confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the
list detailing the problem.
>

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problem.

11

If you look at this close, it is just a glorified op-amp.

> We used a 741 for dsp on a serial line in the 90's.
Huh? If you think the CM119 is simply a glorified op-amp, you've got BIG issues!

I'd also like to hear more about how you used a 741 on a serial line to do DSP functions. Maybe all the rest of us have been doing it wrong for the past few decades. :wink:

What you are missing is that the I/O lines are not the big stumbling block to designing an alternative to the CM119. Yes, I do agree if there were alternative sources of PTT, it would allow use of the 'potted' variety of sound FOB, but the root cause still remains.

> Another excellent question. This I2S needs looking into.
I have posed this question to folks that are smarter than I, and they all tell me that the CM119A best fits the bill based on several factors:

1) The "A" version of the CM119 requires a crystal this makes it frequency stable. (for the most part) The "B" version has an internal R/C oscillator that WILL drift over temperature and other environmental factors. This drift can be large enough to skew the sample rate enough that the LTR and other protocols that require accurate timing may no longer work. This could include CTCSS signalling.

I think USB bus timing plays an important role in the "big picture" as well. I'm a bit fuzzy on this, but I think I remember someone telling me that the USB buss timing plays an important role in keeping the CM119's sample rate constant. One would assume I2C could handle things, but I'm thinking there was an issue with I2C and sample rate(s).

2) Most ADC designs include a high-pass filter ahead of them. These filters are designed to remove "rumble" and any DC bias that exists on the input pins. In the world of communications, this "rumble" is known as low-speed data signalling! The CM119 was designed to be cheap and therefore no high-pass filter.

3) PRICE - what does an I2C device that will do DC type A to D conversions cost? The ones I found that might work were in the $5 range from US distributors. With the more expensive part, you STILL have to add on the signalling and re-write drivers to work with it.

I'm not trying to quench people's ambitions to start down a new path, I'm simply passing along my findings as I researched potential alternatives.

Scott

Scott Zimmerman
Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
474 Barnett Road
Boswell, PA 15531

···

On 7/5/2016 10:38 PM, mike@midnighteng.com wrote:

If you look at this close, it is just a glorified op-amp.
We used a 741 for dsp on a serial line in the 90's.

What makes it tough is the I/O lines some use for PTT/COS.
and the address lines for them that may not be the same with other units.
Could just change the source code for some others.

I suggest finding a way to replace the I/O lines with something else
because ANY dsp should work fine for the audio.
I think the PI itself has them. Just have to write the code to replace it
OR use "ON-EVENT" programming to read/write to them to follow ptt/cos.

I know that is easy for me to say as I'm using Atom boards with a parallel port.
And there are plenty of I/O / DAQ boards out there that can be utilized for plenty
of I/O if the PI's I/O can't work for it.

Just remember, it was the work of others that made it so easy so far.
But a good thing never lasts forever.

...mike/kb8jnm

drivers? hardware? integration with existing codebase? takes time and (unpaid)
effort.

--
Bryan
Sent from my iPhone 6S...No electrons were harmed in the sending of this message.

On Jul 5, 2016, at 20:54, Steven Donegan <donegan@donegan.org> wrote:

I would ask a different question - why do we still use slow USB devices rather
than ones directly attached to the Pi's bus?

Steven Donegan
KK6IVC General Class FCC License
FAA PP-ASEL Pilots License
Silver State Car #86
www.sscc.us

From: David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net>
To: app_rpt mailing list <app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] usbfobs

Steve,

The CM108/CM119 is nowhere near dead! Even if CM stops manufacture, there
will be decent "clones" of it for years to come. No worries about that!

If you're needing some FOBs, I understand the shipping issues you've got,
being in NZ. I just checked the US Postal Service shipping site and a
"First Class Mail International Large Envelope" is under $20USD for 2
lbs., shipped from the USA to NZ. Priority mail, where you could ship a
small box in under a week, starts at about $64USD. See:

This service is currently unavailable | USPS

Why not just work a "bulk quantity" deal with Kevin or Scott to sell you
and ship you a hand full of their RIM-lite adapters??? Then, you'll in
good shape for now.

Repeater Builder USB-RIM Lite

73, David KB4FXC

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016, Steve Wright wrote:

On 06/07/16 11:44, Kevin Custer wrote:

Soldering a 48 pin LQFP and having it be fake is nothing short of a
bad experience. Like Scott, I recently purchased a fair quantity of
CM119A's from a top CM distributor. They told us the CM119 and CM119A
are now legacy products and the CM119B is current. Unfortunately, the
B model doesn't use a crystal and several developers agree that they
may not be suitable for digital and analog radio adapter
applications. There were still a few hundred CM119A's in the
distribution chain as of a few months ago.

If the CM119 is dead, then we should scrap it. I can't really see why
we are focussing on that devices' built-in I/O, when we have computing
devices such as RPI3 with scads of easily accessible I/O.

Linux sound is really well developed - "just works everywhere" I'd say.
Why not build or reuse a DSP-based driver for that, that will handle
voting - now we are in business with all the toys, for the foreseeable
future. Likely a simple CLI config tool could be developed too - choose
RX audio device, TX audio device, signalling, save settings, done.
Rinse and repeat for three devices.

Hardware VOTERs are fine for a single repeater with a few outboard
receivers, but way too much money for non-millionaire clubs to convert
"everything" to asterisk - they will stick with their IRLP node for
sure, and that is a tragedy.. I see a few members here and elsewhere
make it their business to put tens of thousands of $$ into communication
systems, and that's enviable and laudable, but 90% of constructors don't
exist on that rarefied plane.

S

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