Un-encoded pl transmissions breaking squelch

App_rpt-users
1

I’d like to see if anyone here might have a suggestion for me with a problem I’m having concerning CW ID. Trying to get this repeater on a link or two without the ID passing through the network.

The repeater itself is using a quantar codeplug that does not have any settings to transmit the ID with a PL on it. I verified on a different radio with CTSS enabled and verified that the ID is not being transmitted with a PL.

The setup: (simple)
Kenwood TM-D710g -> Cable from URIcables.com and then the -> URI adapter from dmkeng.com then -> usb to the allstar pi. -> internet

Everything works good. Echolink, the actual allstar node and anywhere we link… Audio… Almost everything runs perfect.

What doesn’t work, is the PL decoder on the radio for which ever side of the radio that is allocated to be the data side which causes the un-encoded CW ID to leak through. The radio works properly until it is being operated with the allstar node plugged in.

I’ve tried various simplusb settings employing a trial and error strategy with no luck.

Any ideas? I’m new at this.

2

Howdy from Texas. I’m reading your message and just a bit confused. What is connected to Allstar? Kenwood or Quantar? Quantar does not transmit PL with the ID. There is a setting for ID over Wireline and it may be possible to have the ID come out the same audio line that feeds the URI. I think, never tried it.

However, if you are listening to the Quantar with this Kenwood radio and hearing the ID are you sure that the Kenwood radio has PL decode enabled and active on the audio output you are using?

GeorgeC W2DB 2360, 28599

3

Like @George_Csahanin, I’m confused. I’m not sure what it is you want to do. But I’ll tell you this…

Qunatars don’t sent PL with the ID. Set the ID up in Allstar with the idrecording= setting. You can even have it speak. The comments in rpt.conf explain the various ID settings pretty well. That help any?

4

The quantar repeater is on a mountain ridge.

The Kenwood is in town acting as an allstar/echolink gateway.

Despite setting up the Kenwood to only allow pl encoded transmissions to break the squelch, the data port the interface is attached to doesn’t appear to respect the radio’s efforts or settings.

It passes everything it hears on to the network including the repeater’s PL encoded CW ID. Because of this, I cannot link our repeater to any other network.

5

It just seems like his audio source from thst kenwood radio doesn’t have pl decode. I downloaded the manual and it talks about looking at COS out snd just adjusting the squelch control to change state when open. That would sure explain his issue. So he needs to try transmitting into it with snd without pl to prove it

GeorgeC W2DB

6

I don’t understand this. Would you kindly elaborate?

7

Confirms my suspicion.

8

I can understand why the Kenwood data port would do that. Squelch/PL gated audio is not desirable in data operation. You will probably have to buy a radio with COR and CTCSS detect outputs.

Let me add that what you are doing is kinda cheesy. I call it in-band linking. It degrades the great AllStar audio by adding a radio into the path, it can cause additional squelch tails and it eliminates full duplex operation. You should also consider that the duty cycle of the Kenwood is not adequate for a link radio.

That said, if there is just no way to get internet to the repeater site, purchase a radio suited to the task. A low power Motorola CDM would be my recommendation.

9

First, verify which pin you are using. On the 6-pin mini-DIN connector there are two audio output pins available: Pin 5 “PR1” which is meant for 1200bps packet applications, and Pin 4 “PR9” which is meant for 9600bps applications.

The circuitry in the radio is different for each due to their intended applications. This is a voice application and should be using Pin 5.

Secondly, make sure the settings in the radio are correct. It appears you are familiar with the Data Band menu item. This obviously should be set to the side of the radio you are intending on using.

Next you will want to verify the Data Speed menu item (#518) matches the chosen pin on the connector. If using Pin 5 this setting should be “1200”.

Lastly the squelch method needs to be set in Squelch Source menu item (#520). This should almost always be set to “SQL”. In this mode, if the channel is programmed for CTCSS on receive, the “active” signal state will only be output if the proper tone is present on a received signal, just as if operating the radio from the front panel. Similarly, if a channel is programmed without CTCSS, “active” will be output on any received signal.

Pin 6 “SQC” provides this output and the High/Low logic can be configured using Kenwood’s MCP-2A programming software.

I have a TM-V71A, which I understand to be the same hardware just without the TNC/APRS control head, that I am using in a remote type configuration similar to this and have confirmed correct operation through testing. When CTCSS is programmed on the selected channel, only valid signals are relayed through. As expected, a CSQ channel will relay any received signal, even noise if the squelch is broken. I have also confirmed AM modulated aircraft transmissions are handled appropriately.

Since I am using the squelch output as intended to control downstream equipment in my application, I cannot say exactly how the output on the receive audio pin behaves. It is possible the audio is always present when a signal is received regardless of valid CTCSS/DCS as it is intended for data applications. The SQC output does act as expected and using it properly should eliminate any problems.

1 Like
10

Deciphering poorly written thoughts directed to an unknown person is difficult for me. It is easy for me to confuse someone else’s thoughts when they aren’t presented clearly and clearly directed to someone else as if there was a part of the conversation I was missing. This is why someone might ask for clarification. Was that what you suspected? Or are you just being an overly mean person?

11

I was responding to 6AWP’s analysis of the situation regarding the kenwood radio. He pretty much filled in some blanks. I never saw the radio but found/downloaded the service and user manuals for it. And then what I saw was one statement that gave the clue which is that the COS state from the radio is set by the squelch control. That all tells me that the output you are using is only responding to carrier and not to pl decode. The bottom line is that if all that is correct assumption then while local audio (speaker) might require pl decode the data connector output does not and that means that any signal pl or not will be active and THAT would be why you hear the quantar ID.

If the audio output is wideband (no de-emphasis filtering) the id suggest converting to Usbradio instead of simpleusb which would let asterisk do the carrier and pl decoding. That would require changes in configuration but not anything that is too involved

That’s all

GeorgeC W2DB

PS there is also the chance of less audio delay with usbradio compares to simpleusb. I use it on both of my Quantar repeaters but still use the Quantar carrier and pl encode/decode fir the delay reason

···

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 28, 2020, at 8:39 PM, Sean Strong via AllStarLink Discussion Groups noreply@community.allstarlink.org wrote:

| AH2AP
October 29 |

  • | - |

Deciphering poorly written thoughts directed to an unknown person is difficult for me. It is easy for me to confuse someone else’s thoughts when they aren’t presented clearly and clearly directed to someone else as if there was a part of the conversation I was missing. This is why someone might ask for clarification. Was that what you suspected? Or are you just being an overly mean person?

Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.

In Reply To

| George_Csahanin
October 22 |

  • | - |

Confirms my suspicion.

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1 Like
12

I see the problem has been solved, but wanted to add that we did a lot of this sort of thing years ago (a simplex RF link to a repeater for networking) but a more elegant solution might be to explore a data link to extend the internet to Quantar site. This is now affordable and proven. There are many clubs doing this on 2.4, 3.5 (RIP), and 10.5 GHz and you can get equipment at a reasonably low price. Check out a couple of local networks here near me www.hamwan.org and www.bcwarn.net …in VE4 they also have an extensive 2.4 GHz data backbone between nodes. There is also equipment using public spectrum (ubiquiti) but I suggest we should use the ham bands if we can. Final thing, if your Quantar is mixed mode P25/NBFM I have a code plug for you to interface elegantly with AllStar. VE7NZ

1 Like
13

Thank you George.

Please accept my apology then for assuming the worse. I’ve had a lot of run-ins with folks in this hobby where insulting my intelligence was the primary motivation of some responses.

14

I did look into https://www.arednmesh.org/ and I believe we do have data already being sent to the repeater site. The problem is access. I’m part of a really old club and the people that have access are not accessible. They are tons of new hams looking for reasons to get on the air and I was trying to find something easy for me, and them.

···

On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adrian VE7NZ via AllStarLink Discussion Groups <noreply@community.allstarlink.org> wrote:

| VE7NZ
October 30 |

  • | - |

I see the problem has been solved, but wanted to add that we did a lot of this sort of thing years ago (a simplex RF link to a repeater for networking) but a more elegant solution might be to explore a data link to extend the internet to Quantar site. This is now affordable and proven. There are many clubs doing this on 2.4, 3.5 (RIP), and 10.5 GHz and you can get equipment at a reasonably low price. Check out a couple of local networks here near me www.hamwan.org and www.bcwarn.net …in VE4 they also have an extensive 2.4 GHz data backbone between nodes. There is also equipment using public spectrum (ubiquiti) but I suggest we should use the ham bands if we can. Final thing, if your Quantar is mixed mode P25/NBFM I have a code plug for you to interface elegantly with AllStar. VE7NZ

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In Reply To

| wd6awp ASL Admin
October 23 |

  • | - |

I can understand why the Kenwood data port would do that. Squelch/PL gated audio is not desirable in data operation. You will probably have to buy a radio with COR and CTCSS detect outputs. Let me add that what you are doing is kinda cheesy. I call it in-band linking. It degrades the great AllStar …

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15

Oh and the problem hasn’t really been solved. I just gave up looking for a fix I can implement with the amount of time I have to throw at the problem.

16

No problem

···

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 31, 2020, at 12:01 PM, Sean Strong via AllStarLink Discussion Groups noreply@community.allstarlink.org wrote:

| AH2AP
October 31 |

  • | - |

Thank you George.

Please accept my apology then for assuming the worse. I’ve had a lot of run-ins with folks in this hobby where insulting my intelligence was the primary motivation of some responses.

Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.

In Reply To

| George_Csahanin
October 29 |

  • | - |

I was responding to 6AWP’s analysis of the situation regarding the kenwood radio. He pretty much filled in some blanks. I never saw the radio but found/downloaded the service and user manuals for it. And then what I saw was one statement that gave the clue which is that the COS state from the radio …

Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.

To unsubscribe from these emails, click here.

17

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