So it Has Come to This?

Selfish thieves in denial using distraction to avoid the simple fact that taking open source code and closing it is wrong and harmful to the community.

“…enjoy yourself, this is a hobby.” - irrelevant misdirection.

“There are several different AllStar solutions available and that’s a good thing.” - yes, and they should all be open source benefiting the community as Jim Dixon intended and the license requires.

“Don’t get distracted listening to QRN…” - ie.:Don’t get distracted by the truth and by the fact you are using stolen code and slowing development of a project intended to serve all hams. You sound like Trump- if you just keep distracting and telling the lies over and over many people will believe you or just give up. This changes nothing and you still are in the wrong and should be ashamed. Apologize and open the code. You are a disgrace to the ham community but redemption and repair are easily attained. So far you have shown neither the humility nor strength of character to do what is right.

“The technologies,software,hardware,designs,drawing,schematics,board layouts and/or artwork,concepts,methodologies (including the use of all of these,and that which derived from the use of all these), all other intellectual properties, contained herein,and all intellectual property rights have been and shall continue to be expressly for the benefit of all mankind, and are perpetually placed in the public domain, and may be used, copied, and/or modified by anyone, in any manner, for any legal purpose, without restriction.”

So where are the sources for the hamvoip distro so that I can modify what is public domain as it is clearly stated that " The technologies,software,hardware,designs,drawing,schematics,board layouts and/or artwork,concepts,methodologies (including the use of all of these,and that which derived from the use of all these), all other intellectual properties, contained herein,and all intellectual property rights have been and shall continue to be expressly for the benefit of all mankind…" do mean that the code that use app_rpt or dirived from is supposed to be public domain.

···

Le jeu. 27 août 2020 à 02:52, David McGough via AllStarLink Discussion Groups <noreply@community.allstarlink.org> a écrit :

| David_McGough
August 27 |

  • | - |

Jim Dixon included a document WITH EVERY SOURCE CODE RELEASE that dedicated app_rpt and all supporting technologies to the public domain. This is the purest form of Open Source. For reference, take a look at the statement at the bottom of this file, which was part of the XIPAR release:

https://github.com/ajpaul25/XIPAR_Asterisk/blob/master/apps/rpt_flow.pdf

If these were not Jim’s true wishes, why did this document exist? This file was even included with Digium’s source releases! It was always in Jim’s personal SVN code tree, for which he allowed me to clone, before he passed. Why wasn’t this file removed or updated, if his wishes changed?? —He clearly had direct control of his SVN repository.

Your comments come down to the trying to pull the wacky US political “cancel culture” into the mix. If history and truth doesn’t align with the “party line” that is being pushed, well cancel it. The solution is simple: Just apologize, accept “the truth” and do it “our way” and all will be fine. I’m disappointed.

Not much surprises me any more. As I’ve always stated: The HamVoIP release will continue to be freely available for use in any legal purpose, as per Jim’s wishes.

73, David KB4FXC


Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.


In Reply To

| kk6qms
August 27 |

  • | - |

Selfish thieves in denial using distraction to avoid the simple fact that taking open source code and closing it is wrong and harmful to the community. “…enjoy yourself, this is a hobby.” - irrelevant misdirection. “There are several different AllStar solutions available and that’s a good thing.” …


Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.

You are receiving this because you enabled mailing list mode.

To unsubscribe from these emails, click here.

The term “public domain” refers to creative materials that are not protected by intellectual property laws such as copyright, trademark, or patent laws. The public owns these works, not an individual author or artist. Anyone can use a public domain work without obtaining permission, but no one can ever own it.

···

Le jeu. 27 août 2020 à 11:05, Pierre Martel <petem001@gmail.com> a écrit :

“The technologies,software,hardware,designs,drawing,schematics,board layouts and/or artwork,concepts,methodologies (including the use of all of these,and that which derived from the use of all these), all other intellectual properties, contained herein,and all intellectual property rights have been and shall continue to be expressly for the benefit of all mankind, and are perpetually placed in the public domain, and may be used, copied, and/or modified by anyone, in any manner, for any legal purpose, without restriction.”

So where are the sources for the hamvoip distro so that I can modify what is public domain as it is clearly stated that " The technologies,software,hardware,designs,drawing,schematics,board layouts and/or artwork,concepts,methodologies (including the use of all of these,and that which derived from the use of all these), all other intellectual properties, contained herein,and all intellectual property rights have been and shall continue to be expressly for the benefit of all mankind…" do mean that the code that use app_rpt or dirived from is supposed to be public domain.

Le jeu. 27 août 2020 à 02:52, David McGough via AllStarLink Discussion Groups <noreply@community.allstarlink.org> a écrit :

| David_McGough
August 27 |

  • | - |

Jim Dixon included a document WITH EVERY SOURCE CODE RELEASE that dedicated app_rpt and all supporting technologies to the public domain. This is the purest form of Open Source. For reference, take a look at the statement at the bottom of this file, which was part of the XIPAR release:

https://github.com/ajpaul25/XIPAR_Asterisk/blob/master/apps/rpt_flow.pdf

If these were not Jim’s true wishes, why did this document exist? This file was even included with Digium’s source releases! It was always in Jim’s personal SVN code tree, for which he allowed me to clone, before he passed. Why wasn’t this file removed or updated, if his wishes changed?? —He clearly had direct control of his SVN repository.

Your comments come down to the trying to pull the wacky US political “cancel culture” into the mix. If history and truth doesn’t align with the “party line” that is being pushed, well cancel it. The solution is simple: Just apologize, accept “the truth” and do it “our way” and all will be fine. I’m disappointed.

Not much surprises me any more. As I’ve always stated: The HamVoIP release will continue to be freely available for use in any legal purpose, as per Jim’s wishes.

73, David KB4FXC


Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.


In Reply To

| kk6qms
August 27 |

  • | - |

Selfish thieves in denial using distraction to avoid the simple fact that taking open source code and closing it is wrong and harmful to the community. “…enjoy yourself, this is a hobby.” - irrelevant misdirection. “There are several different AllStar solutions available and that’s a good thing.” …


Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.

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To unsubscribe from these emails, click here.

I think this is a missed opportunity for HamVoIP. David seems to have put a lot of effort into the product, but it could be so much better if others could contribute. At this point, I’m not sure what is to be gained by withholding the source code. Eventually other distributions will match HamVoIP’s feature set and even surpass it. HamVoIP will be ineligible to integrate those GPL protected contributions without opening its source or re-basing. We’d all get to a better place a whole lot sooner if we worked together.

1 Like

That is why I will always ask for source from them. If we play as a team we all win. If we play divided we all lose.

···

Le jeu. 27 août 2020 à 22:15, kc1kcc via AllStarLink Discussion Groups <noreply@community.allstarlink.org> a écrit :

| kc1kcc
August 28 |

  • | - |

I think this is a missed opportunity for HamVoIP. David seems to have put a lot of effort into the product, but it could be so much better if others could contribute. At this point, I’m not sure what is to be gained by withholding the source code. Eventually other distributions will match HamVoIP’s feature set and even surpass it. HamVoIP will be ineligible to integrate those GPL protected contributions without opening its source or re-basing. We’d all get to a better place a whole lot sooner if we worked together.


Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.

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Yes it is a missed opportunity, but all he has to do is take the new, revised, and better open source code written by others and include it in his closed version And he gets the best of both by means of what is essentially theft. Until someone with real $$$& to make something of it legally in the courts to enforce the gpl he wins. It may be time to settle this once and for all and defend the gpl which it’s licensed under but who is going to put up the $$$$ to make the challenge.

Af6ep

Sent using SMTP.

···

On Aug 27, 2020, at 7:15 PM, kc1kcc via AllStarLink Discussion Groups noreply@community.allstarlink.org wrote:

| kc1kcc
August 28 |

  • | - |

I think this is a missed opportunity for HamVoIP. David seems to have put a lot of effort into the product, but it could be so much better if others could contribute. At this point, I’m not sure what is to be gained by withholding the source code. Eventually other distributions will match HamVoIP’s feature set and even surpass it. HamVoIP will be ineligible to integrate those GPL protected contributions without opening its source or re-basing. We’d all get to a better place a whole lot sooner if we worked together.


Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.


Previous Replies

| Pierre_Martel
August 27 |

  • | - |

The term “public domain” refers to creative materials that are not protected by intellectual property laws such as copyright, trademark, or patent laws. The public owns these works, not an individual author or artist. Anyone can use a public domain work without obtaining permission, but no one can ever own it.

··· (click for more details)

| Pierre_Martel
August 27 |

  • | - |

“The technologies,software,hardware,designs,drawing,schematics,board layouts and/or artwork,concepts,methodologies (including the use of all of these,and that which derived from the use of all these), all other intellectual properties, contained herein,and all intellectual property rights have been and shall continue to be expressly for the benefit of all mankind, and are perpetually placed in the public domain, and may be used, copied, and/or modified by anyone, in any manner, for any legal purpose, without restriction.”

So where are the sources for the hamvoip distro so that I can modify what is public domain as it is clearly stated that " The technologies,software,hardware,designs,drawing,schematics,board layouts and/or artwork,concepts,methodologies (including the use of all of these,and that which derived from the use of all these), all other intellectual properties, contained herein,and all intellectual property rights have been and shall continue to be expressly for the benefit of all mankind…" do mean that the code that use app_rpt or dirived from is supposed to be public domain.

··· (click for more details)

| David_McGough
August 27 |

  • | - |

Jim Dixon included a document WITH EVERY SOURCE CODE RELEASE that dedicated app_rpt and all supporting technologies to the public domain. This is the purest form of Open Source. For reference, take a look at the statement at the bottom of this file, which was part of the XIPAR release:

https://github.com/ajpaul25/XIPAR_Asterisk/blob/master/apps/rpt_flow.pdf

If these were not Jim’s true wishes, why did this document exist? This file was even included with Digium’s source releases! It was always in Jim’s personal SVN code tree, for which he allowed me to clone, before he passed. Why wasn’t this file removed or updated, if his wishes changed?? —He clearly had direct control of his SVN repository.

Your comments come down to the trying to pull the wacky US political “cancel culture” into the mix. If history and truth doesn’t align with the “party line” that is being pushed, well cancel it. The solution is simple: Just apologize, accept “the truth” and do it “our way” and all will be fine. I’m disappointed.

Not much surprises me any more. As I’ve always stated: The HamVoIP release will continue to be freely available for use in any legal purpose, as per Jim’s wishes.

73, David KB4FXC

| kk6qms
August 27 |

  • | - |

Selfish thieves in denial using distraction to avoid the simple fact that taking open source code and closing it is wrong and harmful to the community.

“…enjoy yourself, this is a hobby.” - irrelevant misdirection.

“There are several different AllStar solutions available and that’s a good thing.” - yes, and they should all be open source benefiting the community as Jim Dixon intended and the license requires.

“Don’t get distracted listening to QRN…” - ie.:Don’t get distracted by the truth and by the fact you are using stolen code and slowing development of a project intended to serve all hams. You sound like Trump- if you just keep distracting and telling the lies over and over many people will believe you or just give up. This changes nothing and you still are in the wrong and should be ashamed. Apologize and open the code. You are a disgrace to the ham community but redemption and repair are easily attained. So far you have shown neither the humility nor strength of character to do what is right.

| wd6awp ASL Admin
August 27 |

  • | - |

Don’t worry, be happy while I take the hard work of others and don’t give back. What a disgrace!


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Or maybe he has a change of heart. With everything that’s going wrong in the world right now, I feel like we should be mending relationships wherever we can.

Eric,

LET IT DIE!

This list was almost back to being civil. Why don’t you take the worms
and go fish some place else.

Larry - N7FM

···

On 8/27/20 7:47 PM, Eric via AllStarLink Discussion Groups wrote:

[eric.fort.listmail] eric.fort.listmail
https://community.allstarlink.org/u/eric.fort.listmail
August 28

Yes it is a missed opportunity, but all he has to do is take the new,
revised, and better open source code written by others and include it in
his closed version And he gets the best of both by means of what is
essentially theft. Until someone with real $$$& to make something of it
legally in the courts to enforce the gpl he wins. It may be time to
settle this once and for all and defend the gpl which it’s licensed
under but who is going to put up the $$$$ to make the challenge.

Af6ep

Sent using SMTP.

··· (click for more details)
https://community.allstarlink.org/t/so-it-has-come-to-this/17484/19

Visit Topic
https://community.allstarlink.org/t/so-it-has-come-to-this/17484/19 or
reply to this email to respond.


    In Reply To

[kc1kcc] kc1kcc https://community.allstarlink.org/u/kc1kcc
August 28

I think this is a missed opportunity for HamVoIP. David seems to have
put a lot of effort into the product, but it could be so much better if
others could contribute. At this point, I’m not sure what is to be
gained by withholding the source code. Eventually other distributions
will match HamVoIP…

    Previous Replies

[Pierre_Martel] Pierre_Martel
https://community.allstarlink.org/u/pierre_martel
August 28

That is why I will always ask for source from them. If we play as a team
we all win. If we play divided we all lose.

··· (click for more details)
https://community.allstarlink.org/t/so-it-has-come-to-this/17484/18
[kc1kcc] kc1kcc https://community.allstarlink.org/u/kc1kcc
August 28

I think this is a missed opportunity for HamVoIP. David seems to have
put a lot of effort into the product, but it could be so much better if
others could contribute. At this point, I’m not sure what is to be
gained by withholding the source code. Eventually other distributions
will match HamVoIP’s feature set and even surpass it. HamVoIP will be
ineligible to integrate those GPL protected contributions without
opening its source or re-basing. We’d all get to a better place a whole
lot sooner if we worked together.

[Pierre_Martel] Pierre_Martel
https://community.allstarlink.org/u/pierre_martel
August 27

The term “public domain” refers to creative materials that are not
protected by intellectual property laws such as copyright, trademark, or
patent laws. The public owns these works, not an individual author or
artist. Anyone can use a public domain work without obtaining
permission, but no one can ever own it.

··· (click for more details)
https://community.allstarlink.org/t/so-it-has-come-to-this/17484/16
[Pierre_Martel] Pierre_Martel
https://community.allstarlink.org/u/pierre_martel
August 27

“The technologies,software,hardware,designs,drawing,schematics,board
layouts and/or artwork,concepts,methodologies (including the use of all
of these,and that which derived from the use of all these), all other
intellectual properties, contained herein,and all intellectual property
rights have been and shall continue to be expressly for the benefit of
all mankind, and are perpetually placed in the public domain, and may be
used, copied, and/or modified by anyone, in any manner, for any legal
purpose, without restriction.”

So where are the sources for the hamvoip distro so that I can modify
what is public domain as it is clearly stated that " The
technologies,software,hardware,designs,drawing,schematics,board layouts
and/or artwork,concepts,methodologies (including the use of all of
these,and that which derived from the use of all these), all other
intellectual properties, contained herein,and all intellectual property
rights have been and shall continue to be expressly for the benefit of
all mankind…" do mean that the code that use app_rpt or dirived from is
supposed to be public domain.

··· (click for more details)
https://community.allstarlink.org/t/so-it-has-come-to-this/17484/15
[David_McGough] David_McGough
https://community.allstarlink.org/u/david_mcgough
August 27

Jim Dixon included a document WITH EVERY SOURCE CODE RELEASE that
dedicated app_rpt and all supporting technologies to the public domain.
This is the purest form of Open Source. For reference, take a look at
the statement at the bottom of this file, which was part of the XIPAR
release:

XIPAR_Asterisk/apps/rpt_flow.pdf at master · ajpaul25/XIPAR_Asterisk · GitHub

If these were not Jim’s true wishes, why did this document exist? This
file was even included with Digium’s source releases! It was always in
Jim’s personal SVN code tree, for which he allowed me to clone, before
he passed. Why wasn’t this file removed or updated, if his wishes
changed?? —He clearly had direct control of his SVN repository.

Your comments come down to the trying to pull the wacky US political
“cancel culture” into the mix. If history and truth doesn’t align with
the “party line” that is being pushed, well cancel it. The solution is
simple: Just apologize, accept “the truth” and do it “our way” and all
will be fine. I’m disappointed.

Not much surprises me any more. As I’ve always stated: The HamVoIP
release will continue to be freely available for use in any legal
purpose, as per Jim’s wishes.

73, David KB4FXC


Visit Topic
https://community.allstarlink.org/t/so-it-has-come-to-this/17484/19 or
reply to this email to respond.

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I was simply agreeing. The unfortunate and sad truth is that when 2 or more parties can not agree as to what the terms of copyright for intellectual property mean much less agree to the terms of how said copyrIght shall be put into practice the only way it gets settled is by judicial ruling/decree. Until one or the other parties decides to settle the dispute via a judicial process the one on violation wins. Just the way it is. Until then it’s all talk and posturing. This really ought be obvious to anyone withe red blood, respiration, and a heartbeat.

Eric

Sent using SMTP.

···

On Aug 27, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Larry via AllStarLink Discussion Groups noreply@community.allstarlink.org wrote:

| larry
August 28 |

  • | - |

Eric,

LET IT DIE!

This list was almost back to being civil. Why don’t you take the worms
and go fish some place else.

Larry - N7FM

··· (click for more details)


Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.


In Reply To

| eric.fort.listmail
August 28 |

  • | - |

Yes it is a missed opportunity, but all he has to do is take the new, revised, and better open source code written by others and include it in his closed version And he gets the best of both by means of what is essentially theft. Until someone with real $$$& to make something of it legally in the co…

Previous Replies

| kc1kcc
August 28 |

  • | - |

Or maybe he has a change of heart. With everything that’s going wrong in the world right now, I feel like we should be mending relationships wherever we can.

| eric.fort.listmail
August 28 |

  • | - |

Yes it is a missed opportunity, but all he has to do is take the new, revised, and better open source code written by others and include it in his closed version And he gets the best of both by means of what is essentially theft. Until someone with real $$$& to make something of it legally in the courts to enforce the gpl he wins. It may be time to settle this once and for all and defend the gpl which it’s licensed under but who is going to put up the $$$$ to make the challenge.

Af6ep

Sent using SMTP.

··· (click for more details)

| Pierre_Martel
August 28 |

  • | - |

That is why I will always ask for source from them. If we play as a team we all win. If we play divided we all lose.

··· (click for more details)

| kc1kcc
August 28 |

  • | - |

I think this is a missed opportunity for HamVoIP. David seems to have put a lot of effort into the product, but it could be so much better if others could contribute. At this point, I’m not sure what is to be gained by withholding the source code. Eventually other distributions will match HamVoIP’s feature set and even surpass it. HamVoIP will be ineligible to integrate those GPL protected contributions without opening its source or re-basing. We’d all get to a better place a whole lot sooner if we worked together.

| Pierre_Martel
August 27 |

  • | - |

The term “public domain” refers to creative materials that are not protected by intellectual property laws such as copyright, trademark, or patent laws. The public owns these works, not an individual author or artist. Anyone can use a public domain work without obtaining permission, but no one can ever own it.

··· (click for more details)


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To unsubscribe from these emails, click here.

@larry one of the great features of Discourse is you can unfollow a topic. Please feel free to click the bell icon and you won’t be bothered further.

Eric,

I owe you a personal apology for for my uncalled for post the other day.

You were just an unfortunate victim who got sucked in to commenting on
what was soon to become the return of an ongoing RANT about the
ASL/Hamvoip issue. An issue that has been beat to death over and over
and over with no resolution.

My intent, get people to quit using the Allstar discussion group as a
feuding platform.
Sharing and helping should be the Groups goal.

It just happens that after a few previous posts. Nothing in your post,
Nothing directed at you personally but at the fact that ANY reply going
forward would only serve to fish for more and more comments, soon
reviving the OLD ongoing Rant that would add fuel to a feud that appears
more congenial lately.

Hence my uncalled for comment and You becoming it’s unintended victim.
I do apologize for it’s content and the way it was done.
Please do not take my poor judgment as anything personal. It was not!

73
Larry - N7FM

···

On 8/27/20 9:59 PM, Eric via AllStarLink Discussion Groups wrote:

[eric.fort.listmail] eric.fort.listmail
https://community.allstarlink.org/u/eric.fort.listmail
August 28

I was simply agreeing. The unfortunate and sad truth is that when 2 or
more parties can not agree as to what the terms of copyright for
intellectual property mean much less agree to the terms of how said
copyrIght shall be put into practice the only way it gets settled is by
judicial ruling/decree. Until one or the other parties decides to settle
the dispute via a judicial process the one on violation wins. Just the
way it is. Until then it’s all talk and posturing. This really ought be
obvious to anyone withe red blood, respiration, and a heartbeat.

Eric

Sent using SMTP.

··· (click for more details)
https://community.allstarlink.org/t/so-it-has-come-to-this/17484/22

Visit Topic
https://community.allstarlink.org/t/so-it-has-come-to-this/17484/22 or
reply to this email to respond.


    In Reply To

[larry] larry https://community.allstarlink.org/u/larry
August 28

Eric, LET IT DIE! This list was almost back to being civil. Why don’t
you take the worms and go fish some place else. Larry - N7FM ··· (click
for more details)
https://community.allstarlink.org/t/so-it-has-come-to-this/17484/21

    Previous Replies

[larry] larry https://community.allstarlink.org/u/larry
August 28

Eric,

LET IT DIE!

This list was almost back to being civil. Why don’t you take the worms
and go fish some place else.

Larry - N7FM

··· (click for more details)
https://community.allstarlink.org/t/so-it-has-come-to-this/17484/21
[kc1kcc] kc1kcc https://community.allstarlink.org/u/kc1kcc
August 28

Or maybe he has a change of heart. With everything that’s going wrong in
the world right now, I feel like we should be mending relationships
wherever we can.

[eric.fort.listmail] eric.fort.listmail
https://community.allstarlink.org/u/eric.fort.listmail
August 28

Yes it is a missed opportunity, but all he has to do is take the new,
revised, and better open source code written by others and include it in
his closed version And he gets the best of both by means of what is
essentially theft. Until someone with real $$$& to make something of it
legally in the courts to enforce the gpl he wins. It may be time to
settle this once and for all and defend the gpl which it’s licensed
under but who is going to put up the $$$$ to make the challenge.

Af6ep

Sent using SMTP.

··· (click for more details)
https://community.allstarlink.org/t/so-it-has-come-to-this/17484/19
[Pierre_Martel] Pierre_Martel
https://community.allstarlink.org/u/pierre_martel
August 28

That is why I will always ask for source from them. If we play as a team
we all win. If we play divided we all lose.

··· (click for more details)
https://community.allstarlink.org/t/so-it-has-come-to-this/17484/18
[kc1kcc] kc1kcc https://community.allstarlink.org/u/kc1kcc
August 28

I think this is a missed opportunity for HamVoIP. David seems to have
put a lot of effort into the product, but it could be so much better if
others could contribute. At this point, I’m not sure what is to be
gained by withholding the source code. Eventually other distributions
will match HamVoIP’s feature set and even surpass it. HamVoIP will be
ineligible to integrate those GPL protected contributions without
opening its source or re-basing. We’d all get to a better place a whole
lot sooner if we worked together.


Visit Topic
https://community.allstarlink.org/t/so-it-has-come-to-this/17484/22 or
reply to this email to respond.

You are receiving this because you enabled mailing list mode.

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https://community.allstarlink.org/email/unsubscribe/17d4626a6f962dd9c72bb73bbb08510e5eedc5b6ec1a2cd4f9b852d0551bb231.

1 Like

It is a shame that our HOBBY has become so political and causes more fights

than creativity. Not just this form of technology but with many others we have developed.

This discussing/argument has been beat to the pulp and should be solved offline away from the group,

which I joined to keep up, support, and learn more about THE TECHNOLOGY itself and not anything else

that passes through it.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix it because its getting to a point where it’s totally destroying all that has

been achieved and rip our HOBBY apart.

There has already been a HUGE loss of interest as you should already know, so let’s not push it over the edge and out of existence.

And that’s all I have to say about that……

Harold - K7ILO

···

From: Larry via AllStarLink Discussion Groups noreply@community.allstarlink.org
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2020 12:26 PM
To: k7ilo1@gmail.com
Subject: [AllStarLink Discussion Groups] [App_rpt-users] So it Has Come to This?





|

larry
August 29

|

  • | - |

Eric,

I owe you a personal apology for for my uncalled for post the other day.

You were just an unfortunate victim who got sucked in to commenting on
what was soon to become the return of an ongoing RANT about the
ASL/Hamvoip issue. An issue that has been beat to death over and over
and over with no resolution.

My intent, get people to quit using the Allstar discussion group as a
feuding platform.
Sharing and helping should be the Groups goal.

It just happens that after a few previous posts. Nothing in your post,
Nothing directed at you personally but at the fact that ANY reply going
forward would only serve to fish for more and more comments, soon
reviving the OLD ongoing Rant that would add fuel to a feud that appears
more congenial lately.

Hence my uncalled for comment and You becoming it’s unintended victim.
I do apologize for it’s content and the way it was done.
Please do not take my poor judgment as anything personal. It was not!

73
Larry - N7FM

··· (click for more details)


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In Reply To





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eric.fort.listmail
August 28

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  • | - |

I was simply agreeing. The unfortunate and sad truth is that when 2 or more parties can not agree as to what the terms of copyright for intellectual property mean much less agree to the terms of how said copyrIght shall be put into practice the only way it gets settled is by judicial ruling/decree. …


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It is a shame. The only resolution is OPEN SOURCE HamVOIP to remove the fork.

···

From: Harold via AllStarLink Discussion Groups noreply@community.allstarlink.org
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2020 3:28 PM
To: tom@k5tra.net
Subject: [AllStarLink Discussion Groups] [App_rpt-users] So it Has Come to This?





|

k7ilo
August 29

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  • | - |

It is a shame that our HOBBY has become so political and causes more fights

than creativity. Not just this form of technology but with many others we have developed.

This discussing/argument has been beat to the pulp and should be solved offline away from the group,

which I joined to keep up, support, and learn more about THE TECHNOLOGY itself and not anything else

that passes through it.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix it because its getting to a point where it’s totally destroying all that has

been achieved and rip our HOBBY apart.

There has already been a HUGE loss of interest as you should already know, so let’s not push it over the edge and out of existence.

And that’s all I have to say about that……

Harold - K7ILO

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In Reply To





|

larry
August 29

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  • | - |

Eric, I owe you a personal apology for for my uncalled for post the other day. You were just an unfortunate victim who got sucked in to commenting on what was soon to become the return of an ongoing RANT about the ASL/Hamvoip issue. An issue that has been beat to death over and over and over wi…


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And no one at ASL can do that.

Larry,

Nothing personal taken… you are forgiven. I would really like to see the parties settle there differences here. It is unfortunate that the 2 sides here can not agree especially over the work of a now deceased gentleman who I personally knew and worked with on allstar who due to his mortal status can not stand to defend or arbitrate such a dispute (Bdfl status only lasts fl… then the squabbles begin). If this is going to continue we ought see if we could get an org such as eff to arbitrate, but I have yet even seen any willingness of the parties involved to even discuss the matter civilly as opposed to the mud slinging that goes on. That would be a good first step. I have my feelings as to how this ought be based upon what I know of it. That is reasonably moot though. I like most would like to see it settled but it likely will not be until someone puts some money where there mouth is. That said both hams and talk are cheap for the most part.

Eric

I generally agree, but this is not an uncommon problem. Other successful open source projects have been forked and the fork closed, only to be forced to open it after a number of circumstances aligned. It will only be with proper community knowledge, involvement and ultimately support that the matter can be resolved. I can promise you that those who donate their time to further develop the core ASL project do not take kindly to their efforts being stolen, and now being used for profit, which really is what was needed to happen to get EFF involved!

Good point. However, I started this topic and that should count as willingness by the parties involved. I’ll continue to make the community aware of new concerns as they come up. I know we’ve been over this again and again and some folks don’t want to hear it. Maybe community pressure will convince HamVoIP to change their ways and we can end this discussion.

The other point about mud slinging if well taken too. This is about the policy not the person. We know personal attacks don’t solve the problem.

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The issue is that BOTH parties need to be willing to discuss the matter CIVILLY and to the credit of the ASL folks, they have been willing. I don’t see the hamvoip side being as willing to come to the table and discuss the matter. The assertion is that we have a GPL based code base and that hamvoip has violated the terms of the gpl. There is also the issue of who rightly holds said copyright on said codebase. I therefore call upon both sides to calmly and rationally present the case as to why their actions are the proper path moving forward. Let’s start by clearly defining the points of disagreement. Please keep it to just the facts of the matter as each party understands them to be. It is ok if both the parties disagree as to the facts of the matter (such as the code in question being gpl or public domain and who the rightful owner of any copyright may be) but let’s pay this out on the table for once without any personal attacks. If we can at least agree to getting this defined along with the facts of the matter as viewed from all parties that would be a positive first step.

Eric Fort

Sent using SMTP.

···

On Aug 31, 2020, at 6:53 AM, Tim Sawyer via AllStarLink Discussion Groups noreply@community.allstarlink.org wrote:

| wd6awp ASL Admin
August 31 |

  • | - |

eric.fort.listmail:

… but I have yet even seen any willingness of the parties involved to even discuss the matter civilly as opposed to the mud slinging that goes on. That would be a good first step.

Good point. However, I started this topic and that should count as willingness by the parties involved. I’ll continue to make the community aware of new concerns as they come up. I know we’ve been over this again and again and some folks don’t want to hear it. Maybe community pressure will convince HamVoIP to change their ways and we can end this discussion.

The other point about mud slinging if well taken too. This is about the policy not the person. We know personal attacks don’t solve the problem.


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In Reply To

| eric.fort.listmail
August 30 |

  • | - |

Larry, Nothing personal taken… you are forgiven. I would really like to see the parties settle there differences here. It is unfortunate that the 2 sides here can not agree especially over the work of a now deceased gentleman who I personally knew and worked with on allstar who due to his mortal s…

Previous Replies

| JJC
August 30 |

  • | - |

I generally agree, but this is not an uncommon problem. Other successful open source projects have been forked and the fork closed, only to be forced to open it after a number of circumstances aligned. It will only be with proper community knowledge, involvement and ultimately support that the matter can be resolved. I can promise you that those who donate their time to further develop the core ASL project do not take kindly to their efforts being stolen, and now being used for profit, which really is what was needed to happen to get EFF involved!

| eric.fort.listmail
August 30 |

  • | - |

Larry,

Nothing personal taken… you are forgiven. I would really like to see the parties settle there differences here. It is unfortunate that the 2 sides here can not agree especially over the work of a now deceased gentleman who I personally knew and worked with on allstar who due to his mortal status can not stand to defend or arbitrate such a dispute (Bdfl status only lasts fl… then the squabbles begin). If this is going to continue we ought see if we could get an org such as eff to arbitrate, but I have yet even seen any willingness of the parties involved to even discuss the matter civilly as opposed to the mud slinging that goes on. That would be a good first step. I have my feelings as to how this ought be based upon what I know of it. That is reasonably moot though. I like most would like to see it settled but it likely will not be until someone puts some money where there mouth is. That said both hams and talk are cheap for the most part.

Eric

| Pierre_Martel
August 29 |

  • | - |

And no one at ASL can do that.

| Tom
August 29 |

  • | - |

It is a shame. The only resolution is OPEN SOURCE HamVOIP to remove the fork.

··· (click for more details)

| k7ilo
August 29 |

  • | - |

It is a shame that our HOBBY has become so political and causes more fights

than creativity. Not just this form of technology but with many others we have developed.

This discussing/argument has been beat to the pulp and should be solved offline away from the group,

which I joined to keep up, support, and learn more about THE TECHNOLOGY itself and not anything else

that passes through it.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix it because its getting to a point where it’s totally destroying all that has

been achieved and rip our HOBBY apart.

There has already been a HUGE loss of interest as you should already know, so let’s not push it over the edge and out of existence.

And that’s all I have to say about that……

Harold - K7ILO

··· (click for more details)


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To unsubscribe from these emails, click here.

I guess you missed the part that states all the equipment he’s providing and including for the price he charges…

Sounds like there may be a little jealously going on here.

I’m founder and owner of the USA GMRS Association, we charge a membership fee, just like many other associations and even Amateur radio clubs do, and in that membership fee it includes the use of our local, state-wide and nation-wide repeater systems. We also offer for sale Pi’s with our “LinkConnect” asterisk software version loaded and ready to go should one desire to obtain such.

Must people be reminded that running a massive amount of registration servers, a data center, and the fiber required (bandwidth) for such an operation is not cheap and comes at a high cost? Just because Allstar doesn’t charge a fee doesn’t mean that everyone else shouldn’t recoup something for their time and the backbone operations provided.

Let me be clear, asterisk software is NOT only for Amateur radio operators and saying that, as users of the asterisk software, we don’t sell the software, we only sell the equipment that the software is installed on and also the time to maintain the equipment and the software. I don’t see anywhere in his “(arm-allstar) Pi Farm” where he states the selling of the hamvoip software. Too many times people like to jump to a conclusion that’s not warranted and I think in this case this may very well be the case. If he is selling it, well he wouldn’t be the first and most likely won’t be the last. There’s no law that says you can’t sell it or charge a fee for its use and maintenance as long as one follows the open source licensing rules/requirements for the particular software in question.

Just so there’s no misunderstanding, although not a Amateur radio operator myself, I do have many in the family that are, in addition the fact that I have well over 30 years in the RF field and well over 10 years experience with asterisk software I do and have done many allstar installs for several Amateur radio operators in the past. Many I might add that would not be on allstar today had I not installed the software and made their equipment work like it should. Take that and my facts/opinions for what ever it’s worth.

Have a good day…

You’re not wrong, and if you resell services or even different builds of asterisk that contain modified code, which is perfectly fine to do, then you must provide the source on request or publish it as per the licensing. That’s really the matter here…

If people want to pay for an allstar service that someone offers, that’s fine… if that service includes things from an open source project then the source code must be either published or provided upon request. Neither of those have ever been satisfied and that is the core of the issue plain and simple.

1 Like