audio for direct VCO FM

Gurus,

What are the limitations with audio-driving a 50MHz FM Transmit VCO directly?

Sorry that's a really open-ended question. I suppose it will vary per each chan_ driver as well, as well as the emphasis settings and so on.

So dealing with the issues of emphasis, compression, (audio)bandwidth limiting and so on - how much can be taken out of the radio and handled by the chan_ drivers, and how different are they each?

It was suggested elsewhere, that everything over 12KHz be not permitted anywhere near an FM modulator stage, but how much does that actually happen with the CM119 chipset?

I ask because on a transmit-only site, there hardly seems to be any point to having a "transceiver" there at all, when a clock generator, buffer, PA, and filtering, is a fairly simple unit.

Cheers,
Steve

If you are talking about connecting a fob/URI directly to a modulator input of a direct FM radio, then you can set up USBradio or maybe simpleusb, to set txprelim=yes then it will preemphasize and limit the audio.

Not sure where your 12 KHz limitation is reference to but if you are looking to limit at 25 Khz(5KHz), then set TX audio with a 1K tone @ 3K deviation. If you intend to limit at 12.5 KHz(2.5KHz), then set deviation with a 1K tone with 1.5 KHz deviation.

I have several radios I feed into direct mod with voice and tone.

Jon VA3RQ

···

On 5/31/2016 3:40 AM, Steve Wright wrote:

Gurus,

What are the limitations with audio-driving a 50MHz FM Transmit VCO directly?

Sorry that's a really open-ended question. I suppose it will vary per each chan_ driver as well, as well as the emphasis settings and so on.

So dealing with the issues of emphasis, compression, (audio)bandwidth limiting and so on - how much can be taken out of the radio and handled by the chan_ drivers, and how different are they each?

It was suggested elsewhere, that everything over 12KHz be not permitted anywhere near an FM modulator stage, but how much does that actually happen with the CM119 chipset?

I ask because on a transmit-only site, there hardly seems to be any point to having a "transceiver" there at all, when a clock generator, buffer, PA, and filtering, is a fairly simple unit.

Cheers,
Steve

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It was suggested elsewhere, that everything over 12KHz be not permitted anywhere near an FM
modulator stage, but how much does that actually happen with the CM119 chipset?

Simple - Sampling frequency.

While there are audio filters built into the audio chain of the DSP routines, this audio is in a digital form, and must be converted to analog before being applied to the modulator. This is done inside of the CM119's DAC/Codec. Unfortunately, along with the frequency/amplitude limited audio signals, the output of the CM119 contains the audio sampling frequency.

If you look at the output of a "naked" CM119, it's easy to see this distortion, it looks like stair steps. Since these stair steps are square waves, they contain harmonics. It's these harmonics and sampling frequency that the audio filtering found on the RIM, RIM-Lite, and URI remove. These filters roll off the top-end frequency response and therefore remove the stair steps. The tricky part is to place the "knee" of the filter at a frequency that sufficiently rolls off the sampling frequency and harmonics, yet lets enough high-frequency voice audio though to achieve good fidelity. In the case of the RIM, this frequency is set for 10KHz. In teh case of the URI, it's MUCH lower.

You may ask, "Why should I care if there are high-frequency audio components being fed directly to my modulator?" Well, *YOU* may not care, but your adjacent channel neighbor and other services sure will!! High frequency harmonics in your audio modulation chain create spurs and sideband noise in your transmitter. This is an issue even if you are deploying a "transmit only" site. While YOUR equipment at a particular site may be only a transmitter, someone else may be trying to use a receiver at that site.

There are MUCH better explanations for the necessity of transmitter audio bandwith limiting found elsewhere on the web. The purpose of this explanation was to illustrate that when feeding a modulator DIRECTLY, you should try to keep your modulating audio clean to be a good neighbor. You don't have to worry about this when feeding audio into a radio ahead of the mic/audio processor since it takes care of all of this filtering for you.

Scott

Scott Zimmerman
Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
474 Barnett Road
Boswell, PA 15531

···

On 5/31/2016 3:40 AM, Steve Wright wrote:

Gurus,

What are the limitations with audio-driving a 50MHz FM Transmit VCO directly?

Sorry that's a really open-ended question. I suppose it will vary per each chan_ driver as well, as
well as the emphasis settings and so on.

So dealing with the issues of emphasis, compression, (audio)bandwidth limiting and so on - how much
can be taken out of the radio and handled by the chan_ drivers, and how different are they each?

It was suggested elsewhere, that everything over 12KHz be not permitted anywhere near an FM
modulator stage, but how much does that actually happen with the CM119 chipset?

I ask because on a transmit-only site, there hardly seems to be any point to having a "transceiver"
there at all, when a clock generator, buffer, PA, and filtering, is a fairly simple unit.

Cheers,
Steve

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Steve,

Are you wanting to start from scratch building a transmitter, or start
from an existing radio, trimming away unneeded modules? For VHF-LO FM,
there is a overflow of dirt cheap surplus commercial hardware available
worldwide. I highly recommend using surplus radios for several reasons.
One of those reasons is if you have a hardware failure, you can have 10
spare 100 watt transmitters on the shelf waiting, rather than just being
down while waiting for repairs.

As for directly modulating a VCO, that is a complex subject, assuming you
need to stay within frequency and bandwidth tolerances, at is typically
required. If you have a lab full of test equipment available, and are
willing to put in the time designing a proper PLL filter, pulling this off
is very do-able, and many have.

Only once the homebrew exciter is working properly with signals from a
clean audio signal generator should you at attach it to AllStar. The
output spectrum directly from a CM1xy, running at 48KHz sampling rate is
pretty dirty. When you plug a headset into the CM1xy and listen to music,
etc., you'll never notice this noise--the human ear isn't good enough!

However, this noise will modulate a VCO, generating spurs and wide-band
trash; hence the reason that URI and RIM hardware include audio LP
filters at their outputs. For a review of the CM1xy output spectrum
WITHOUT filtering, take a look at this review. Of particular interest are
the SMPTE and CCIF IMD performance tests, where you'll see loud DAC
"image" related spurs between 30KHz and 96KHz. There are also more
harmonically-related spurs even further out, at higher frequencies, which
can't be seen on these Spectrum Analyzer plots:

Okay, now that the basic transmitter is working, fast forward to AllStar.
You'll have to use the usbradio channel driver, since simpleusb doesn't
implement an output level limiter and perhaps other needed features (like
CTCSS tone generation). Once all the levels are set and checked out, and
the exciter spectrum is clean, you should be ready.

So, from my perspective, this is a basic take on what's needed. All
do-able, if you've got hours and hours of time, determination, test
equipment and the engineering skills needed. This is what the ham radio
homebrewing spirit is about, of course, and I'm sure it would be a fun
project.

73, David KB4FXC

···

On Tue, 31 May 2016, Steve Wright wrote:

Gurus,

What are the limitations with audio-driving a 50MHz FM Transmit VCO
directly?

Sorry that's a really open-ended question. I suppose it will vary per
each chan_ driver as well, as well as the emphasis settings and so on.

So dealing with the issues of emphasis, compression, (audio)bandwidth
limiting and so on - how much can be taken out of the radio and handled
by the chan_ drivers, and how different are they each?

It was suggested elsewhere, that everything over 12KHz be not permitted
anywhere near an FM modulator stage, but how much does that actually
happen with the CM119 chipset?

I ask because on a transmit-only site, there hardly seems to be any
point to having a "transceiver" there at all, when a clock generator,
buffer, PA, and filtering, is a fairly simple unit.

Cheers,
Steve

Assuming the VCO is part of a PLL, the PLL will tend to “correct”
the modulation, especially those low frequency (example CTCSS and
DCS signalling ) components that fall within the loop filter. Most
modern land mobile transmitters have modulation compensation where
a small amount of modulation is fed to the Reference Oscillator in
order to fool it into ignoring the "error’ it would see due to the
modulation of the VCO. So to answer your question, you should
insert modulation where it can feed both the VCO and the Reference
Oscillator Modulation Compensation circuitry other wise the result
will be distorted.

  The matters of preemphasis/deemphasis and channel BW modulation

mask are another important set of topics and beg the question, why
do you want to drive the VCO directly without employing the
existing filtering?

···

On 5/31/2016 3:40 AM, Steve Wright
wrote:

  Gurus,




  What are the limitations with audio-driving a 50MHz FM Transmit

VCO directly?

  Sorry that's a really open-ended question.� I suppose it will vary

per each chan_ driver as well, as well as the emphasis settings
and so on.

  So dealing with the issues of emphasis, compression,

(audio)bandwidth limiting and so on - how much can be taken out of
the radio and handled by the chan_ drivers, and how different are
they each?

  It was suggested elsewhere, that everything over 12KHz be not

permitted anywhere near an FM modulator stage, but how much does
that actually happen with the CM119 chipset?

  I ask because on a transmit-only site, there hardly seems to be

any point to having a “transceiver” there at all, when a clock
generator, buffer, PA, and filtering, is a fairly simple unit.

  Cheers,


  Steve




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