You are correct Joe. The RTCM is a contender though it wouldn’t exist or would be useless without Jim’s software.
As Robert mentioned, and his friend is right. I was warned by a local and very knowledgeable elmer also. Personally I’m simulcasting but fortunately there is a node smack dab in the middle that “most” users will switch to so they don’t hear the issues in the overlap zones.
I haven’t yet cracked the RTCM’s open to modify them and I may not ever do it just cause i’m lazy. It depends on how picky your users are. That’s sort of a loaded question though. When folks get used to allstar (especially if you’re running a high quality codec) and they travel into one of these overlap zones they’ll probably complain because they’re used to so much more fidelity!
Does it work without jumping through all the hoops…? Yes, it’s just way more ugly in the areas that have overlapping coverage.
blah blah…i’m delirious and I still have two more night shifts to go!
73 de K0JSC
···
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 10:59 AM, app_rpt-users-request@ohnosec.org wrote:
Send App_rpt-users mailing list submissions to
app_rpt-users@ohnosec.orgTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
[http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users](http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users)or, via email, send a message with subject or body ‘help’ to
app_rpt-users-request@ohnosec.orgYou can reach the person managing the list at
app_rpt-users-owner@ohnosec.orgWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than “Re: Contents of App_rpt-users digest…”
Today’s Topics:
Re: RTCM Simulcast question (Robert Newberry)
Re: App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 88, Issue 16 (Joe Leikhim)
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 12:56:57 -0400
From: Robert Newberry N1XBM@amsat.org
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast question
Message-ID:
<CAM09xEagKzHhFhw94cqe7oDKWkhr51fdTKt0CuQB2DMz7OH4Gg@mail.gmail.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=“utf-8”
Please don’t flame me.
I have a friend who used to work in the paging industry. When I talked to
him about simulcast he was telling me about the paging industry the pains
they went thru. He was saying that they used all of the same transmitters
made around the same time. A signal can go from point A to B in transmitter
a different lengths of time.
He basically told me the same thing, that go do it and enjoy. He just
warned me about PL sync and all of the details to getting it right. He just
said at the end of the day that he was confident I could get it to work,
but probably will not be satisfied with the results.
N1XBM
Apparare Scientor
Paratus Communicare
Allstar Node # 27086, 41540, 41812, 42086, 42658, 42657
www.radioguysrepeaternetwork.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed…
URL: <http://ohnosec.org/pipermail/app_rpt-users/attachments/20160606/87496c0d/attachment-0001.html>
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 12:59:27 -0400
From: Joe Leikhim rhyolite@leikhim.com
Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 88, Issue 16
Message-ID: afeb133c-87cc-0c50-9e8d-5ee854a7fc24@leikhim.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=“windows-1252”; Format=“flowed”
There was mention on this board that drift of the 9.6 MHz clock causes
the CTCSS phase to shift. If this is the case, you will have audible
noise and possibly receiver CTCSS drop outs in overlap areas. You will
have distortion of audio frequencies as well.
Whatever solution to the 9.6 MHz clock must be phase coherent between
RTCM nodes .
I have no experience with RTCM, but am quite familiar with commercial
simulcast in the LMR world. I am lurking here because I see the RTCM as
a very affordable contender to the commercial products that exist today.
Joe K4SAT
On 6/6/2016 12:23 PM, Jeff Carrier wrote:
The RTCM and simulcast DOES work. As mentioned before, you have to be
using a transmitter that can accept a 10 mHz (or whatever) reference
signal. You also need 1 PPS for your receivers and transmitter. You
also need to sync the RTCM to your GPSDO (which I have not done). If
you have not done all this you WILL hear some “funk” in the overlap
areas.
That “funk” can go from usable to un-usable depending on how strong
the transmitters are in the overlap region.
Pardon the “non-technical” terms. It does work but the law of physics
do apply here.
de K0JSC
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 9:54 AM, <app_rpt-users-request@ohnosec.org
Send App_rpt-users mailing list submissions toapp_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit[http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users](http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users)or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' toapp_rpt-users-request@ohnosec.org<mailto:app_rpt-users-request@ohnosec.org>You can reach the person managing the list atapp_rpt-users-owner@ohnosec.org<mailto:app_rpt-users-owner@ohnosec.org>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of App_rpt-users digest..."Today's Topics:1. Re: audio for direct VCO FM (Joe Leikhim) (Steve Wright)2. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (Steve Wright)3. Re: audio for direct VCO FM: Si5351B (David McGough)4. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (Joe Moskalski)5. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (David McGough)6. Re: RTCM Simulcast question (Joe Moskalski)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 19:40:50 +1200From: Steve Wright <info@meshnetworks.co.nz<mailto:info@meshnetworks.co.nz>>To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org>Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] audio for direct VCO FM (Joe Leikhim)Message-ID: <57552902.9070008@meshnetworks.co.nz<mailto:57552902.9070008@meshnetworks.co.nz>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowedOn 04/06/16 04:00, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com<mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com>> wrote:> Assuming the VCO is part of a PLL, the PLL will tend to"correct" the> modulation, [....]Was planning to use the Si5351B - has VCO input.S------------------------------Message: 2Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 20:22:36 +1200From: Steve Wright <info@meshnetworks.co.nz<mailto:info@meshnetworks.co.nz>>To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org>Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast questionMessage-ID: <575532CC.2020304@meshnetworks.co.nz<mailto:575532CC.2020304@meshnetworks.co.nz>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowedOn Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Joe Moskalski <kc2irv@gmail.com<mailto:kc2irv@gmail.com>> wrote:> I will be setting up a 2 site UHF simulcast system in the comingmonthsHuh? I was told (on this list) that simulcast TX "doesn't work".S------------------------------Message: 3Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 10:46:38 -0400 (EDT)From: David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net <mailto:kb4fxc@inttek.net>>To: app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:app_rpt-users@ohnosec.org>Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] audio for direct VCO FM: Si5351BMessage-ID:<Pine.LNX.4.44.1606060946450.4196-100000@goliath.inttek.net<mailto:Pine.LNX.4.44.1606060946450.4196-100000@goliath.inttek.net>>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCIIHi Steve,We're getting way off topic for the mailing list, but, I thoughtI'd postthis reply here if there are any other interested hams out there,perhapswho are also experimenting in this area.I haven't played with the Si5351B version of this interestingchip, yet. Iwonder whether the voltage control input of this chip would besuitablefor AF FM modulation? Assuming that you could modulate the VCXO ataudiofrequencies (the datasheet isn't completely clear to me aboutthat), animmediate issue would be that everytime you change the fractional-Ndivision ratio, you'll change the modulation index. This will haveto becompensated for, one way or another.I've been playing with several boards with Si5351 chips. They'reprettyneat. They're also pretty noisy! ...With both spurious and phasenoise.The phase noise can be improved somewhat with a better externalcrystaloscillator, the spurs seem more challenging. Using the on-boardVCXO withthe 5351B, you can't use a high quality external oscillator, so phasenoise and overall frequency stability could be an issue, too.Anyhow, for my applications, I'm following the Si5351 with a secondaryclean-up VCO/PLL, which was already in the radios. I just needed afrequency-agile reference oscillator, so to speak. I think theSi5351 willwork well for this, based on my preliminary tests! (I'd certainlylike tohear the experiences from anyone who has already been down this road!)I guess you're not finding any local sources of surplus radios?Do youhave any 6m power amps available?73, David KB4FXCOn Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Steve Wright wrote:> On 04/06/16 04:00, Joe Leikhim <rhyolite@leikhim.com<mailto:rhyolite@leikhim.com>> wrote:> > Assuming the VCO is part of a PLL, the PLL will tend to"correct" the> > modulation, [....]>> Was planning to use the Si5351B - has VCO input.>> S>------------------------------Message: 4Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:03:11 -0400From: Joe Moskalski <kc2irv@gmail.com <mailto:kc2irv@gmail.com>>To: App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org>Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast questionMessage-ID:<CAES28qxB06niu+nL4Y5QfUvgZFf-y8s=uZdH2afzxKnwr0HV+w@mail.gmail.com<mailto:uZdH2afzxKnwr0HV%2Bw@mail.gmail.com>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"> It seems clear that in order for simulcast to work properly withthe RTCM> I will need to clock the CPU to the GPSDO. Is there a deviceavailable to> give you the 9.6 mhz reference from the 10 mhz out from theGPSDO or does> anyone have a schematic available so that I can build them myself?>><[https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon](https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon)>Virus-free.[www.avast.com](http://www.avast.com) <[http://www.avast.com](http://www.avast.com)><[https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link](https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link)><#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL:<[http://ohnosec.org/pipermail/app_rpt-users/attachments/20160606/a36d4626/attachment-0001.html](http://ohnosec.org/pipermail/app_rpt-users/attachments/20160606/a36d4626/attachment-0001.html)>------------------------------Message: 5Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:36:01 -0400 (EDT)From: David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net <mailto:kb4fxc@inttek.net>>To: App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org>Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast questionMessage-ID:<Pine.LNX.4.44.1606061122550.4196-100000@goliath.inttek.net<mailto:Pine.LNX.4.44.1606061122550.4196-100000@goliath.inttek.net>>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCIIHi Joe,While on the subject of the Si5351 chips, the application ofconvertingone reference clock to a secondary frequency is what they weredesignedfor. So, since you've already got a GPS reference, this -might- be aninexpensive starting point...For this application, you obviously won'tneed all the bells and whistles presented in this article! See:[http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf](http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf)<[http://www.knology.net/%7Egmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf](http://www.knology.net/%7Egmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf)>[http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus](http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus) <[http://www.knology.net/%7Egmarcus](http://www.knology.net/%7Egmarcus)>Note that I would replace the Si5351 25MHz reference with a decentTCXO(available on ebay, etc.)....Note that I haven't used the Si5351with anRTCM, there may be simpler/better ways???73, David KB4FXCOn Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Joe Moskalski wrote:> > It seems clear that in order for simulcast to work properlywith the RTCM> > I will need to clock the CPU to the GPSDO. Is there a deviceavailable to> > give you the 9.6 mhz reference from the 10 mhz out from theGPSDO or does> > anyone have a schematic available so that I can build them myself?> >> >><[https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon](https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon)>> Virus-free.> [www.avast.com](http://www.avast.com) <[http://www.avast.com](http://www.avast.com)>><[https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link](https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link)>> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>>------------------------------Message: 6Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 11:54:11 -0400From: Joe Moskalski <kc2irv@gmail.com <mailto:kc2irv@gmail.com>>To: David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net <mailto:kb4fxc@inttek.net>>Cc: App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org>Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] RTCM Simulcast questionMessage-ID:<CAES28qx-G3wytTXKMRVvzMNm+498_c-aeNB6JrTWmZOR7A7ZcA@mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAES28qx-G3wytTXKMRVvzMNm%2B498_c-aeNB6JrTWmZOR7A7ZcA@mail.gmail.com>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"I mentioned this to someone else, QRP Labs has a kit that createsa OCXOaround the Si5351 chip. here is the link:[http://www.qrp-labs.com/ocxokit.html](http://www.qrp-labs.com/ocxokit.html)If you couple this with another kit of theirs you can program itit anyfrequency you want. My only thought is would it be accurate/stableenough.[http://www.qrp-labs.com/progrock.html](http://www.qrp-labs.com/progrock.html)<[https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon](https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon)>Virus-free.[www.avast.com](http://www.avast.com) <[http://www.avast.com](http://www.avast.com)><[https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link](https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link)><#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 11:36 AM, David McGough <kb4fxc@inttek.net<mailto:kb4fxc@inttek.net>> wrote:>> Hi Joe,>> While on the subject of the Si5351 chips, the application ofconverting> one reference clock to a secondary frequency is what they weredesigned> for. So, since you've already got a GPS reference, this -might-be an> inexpensive starting point...For this application, you obviouslywon't> need all the bells and whistles presented in this article! See:>> [http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf](http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf)<[http://www.knology.net/%7Egmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf](http://www.knology.net/%7Egmarcus/Si5351/Si5351_VFO_QEX.pdf)>> [http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus](http://www.knology.net/~gmarcus) <[http://www.knology.net/%7Egmarcus](http://www.knology.net/%7Egmarcus)>>> Note that I would replace the Si5351 25MHz reference with adecent TCXO> (available on ebay, etc.)....Note that I haven't used the Si5351with an> RTCM, there may be simpler/better ways???>>> 73, David KB4FXC>>>>> On Mon, 6 Jun 2016, Joe Moskalski wrote:>> > > It seems clear that in order for simulcast to work properlywith the> RTCM> > > I will need to clock the CPU to the GPSDO. Is there a deviceavailable> to> > > give you the 9.6 mhz reference from the 10 mhz out from theGPSDO or> does> > > anyone have a schematic available so that I can build themmyself?> > >> > >> > <>[https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon](https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon)> >> > Virus-free.> > [www.avast.com](http://www.avast.com) <[http://www.avast.com](http://www.avast.com)>> > <>[https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link](https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link)> >> > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>> >>> _______________________________________________> App_rpt-users mailing list> App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org>> [http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users](http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users)>> To unsubscribe from this list please visit> [http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users](http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users) andscroll down> to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the> "Unsubscribe or edit options button"> You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email> confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send amessage to> the list detailing the problem.>-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL:<[http://ohnosec.org/pipermail/app_rpt-users/attachments/20160606/a06570ac/attachment.html](http://ohnosec.org/pipermail/app_rpt-users/attachments/20160606/a06570ac/attachment.html)>------------------------------_______________________________________________App_rpt-users mailing listApp_rpt-users@ohnosec.org <mailto:App_rpt-users@ohnosec.org>[http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users](http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users)End of App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 88, Issue 16*********************************************
App_rpt-users mailing list
To unsubscribe from this list please visit http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users and scroll down to the bottom of the page. Enter your email address and press the “Unsubscribe or edit options button”
You do not need a password to unsubscribe, you can do it via email confirmation. If you have trouble unsubscribing, please send a message to the list detailing the problem.
–
Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
407-982-0446
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed…
URL: <http://ohnosec.org/pipermail/app_rpt-users/attachments/20160606/00c882a2/attachment.html>
App_rpt-users mailing list
http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
End of App_rpt-users Digest, Vol 88, Issue 19